Exactly. Adding that many 18 year olds aren’t locked in to a major…and go to college with an open mind as to what will best work for them.
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Yes, to me this is actually a pretty mature attitude.
Of course sometimes you know a certain degree program is necessary for your (current) goals. So even acknowledging those goals might change, you need to have that program as an option.
But when nothing in particular is necessary in that way? I think having a flexible mindset is a virtue.
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Folks on CC pretend that all undergrad business programs are created equal and therefore they teach the same stuff and ergo, must be better for a ‘business career” than programs that are NOT business oriented.
I can only speak for large, multinational companies (which is where I’ve worked) plus my colleagues in I-banking, quant shops, MBB consulting, etc. So don’t flame me with “you can’t possibly get hired at a regional credit union without majoring in finance”. I’ll bet that’s true in many cases.
But sometimes a business degree is an asset, and sometimes it’s a hindrance. For some business roles (finance being a large part of that), engineering is superior, even if the engineering hire does not know how to do a discounted cash flow analysis. For some business roles, social sciences (poli sci– especially if the candidates have experience working with large datasets, psych, etc.) are superior. And for some business roles, majoring in the arts (performing or fine arts) is superior. The content knowledge isn’t what’s getting hired. It’s the problem-solving skills, the ability to read people, the ability to write concisely and coherently for multiple audiences, and the analytical chops.
Why on earth would companies hire Columbia undergrads who major in philosophy for finance roles when Stern is a few subway stops down Broadway and it teaches finance every single day?
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I don’t know - did OP apply to Columbia?
He clearly applied to - from his previous posts - schools he feels are heavy hitters for IB.
btw - there are several lists and they don’t all show the same.
My point was simply - I’d look at a major. I believe major before school.
But given OP isn’t seeming to look at WashU, I’m guessing they are looking otherwise.
I think that’s a mistake - but OP can do as their own.
You noted some might like business - and then transfer. And I was simply stating in this case, that’s clearly not the case. I think they saw NYU Stern at the top of the list and it wouldn’t matter if the major was underwater basket weaving…..that was enough reason for them to apply ED1.
And I am respectfully disagreeing with you. The philosophy majors at hedge funds, the geology majors at quant shops, and the poli sci majors in M&A would disagree with you as well. Companies that run “Mini-MBA” programs for the non-business hires can teach what a smart, mathematically oriented professional what they need to know in a matter of weeks.
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So I think blossom basically explained why a kid interested in business could rationally think school over major.
Obviously that is a little reductionist put that way, but the point would be that in business fields, at least often they are really looking to hire certain types of people, not certain types of degrees. To the extent they need specific knowledge, they plan to do that training themselves.
And so thinking about college as an opportunity to develop holistically as a person makes a lot of sense. Exactly what your major ends up being may simply not matter that much.
Of course this is also specifically known to be true for professional schools, including law schools, med schools, and in fact business schools. You don’t need a certain undergrad degree.
So why wouldn’t that also be true of some actual businesses?
In any event, whether you agree this is prudent or not, for sure I know a lot of kids who think this way. Including in fact lots of kids with parents who have been successful in business, and who encourage them to think this way.
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I’m not talking about who gets the jobs on Wall Street….because no one can predict that to the exact.
I’m talking about spending four years, day after day, studying something you don’t want….because you think it will give you best odds of leading to Wall Street.
The OP was presumably wanting to go to Stern to study finance. They haven’t said so - so I’m assuming.
And I’m assuming if they decide to go to Midd or Bowdoin or wherever, it will be Econ.
Perhaps they’ll enjoy econ and that’s great.
But they see you saying - hey, they actually want Classics kids. But he has zero interest in Classics.
But he hears - it’s the path to Wall Street.
Well he’s already stated - I want NYC and I want IB - so then that’s what he’s going to do.
That’s my point - he should be true to himself and pursue what he desires vs. trying to game a system.
If it’s meant to be, it will happen - but to chase something one doesn’t necessarily love seems silly….to me.
By the way, I can’t speak for the OP, but I think there is a lot to like about NYU besides Stern. For sure the location in NYC, if that is your thing, and I do think that plays into networking as well. Academically, though, it is also a very strong Liberal Arts and Sciences school. Indeed, I have no idea of specific stats, but I am sure plenty of people from NYU go into successful business careers, in NYC or elsewhere, but not specifically out of Stern.
So yes, I agree NYU and WashU are similar in this way, but I also don’t at all struggle to understand the overlapping appeal with a Bowdoin or Middlebury. Depends on the kid, of course, but applying to all these schools would not at all be unusual in my circles.
ETA:
Here are Stern’s undergrad degree options, incidentally:
One might note they are VERY focused on leveraging NYU’s strengths in other fields.
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And they do. Again, unless things have changed, they all run you through an in-house training that makes sure everyone’s starts on an even keel. Lots of poli-sci and history types in those classes. And bio and chem majors who can ultimately cover Pharma and Bio-Tech. And Native speakers who can ultimately cover Emerging Markets. And…
OP, I assume you got into these places because you’re smart and interesting. That’s what will get you the job on the Street, BCG or KPMG you desire. Pick the one you like.
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You can change your major more easily than you can change your school. Yes, make sure there are pathways to pursue what your goals are now. But given that you can change your mind, choose a school that will make you happy regardless of what path you eventually pursue – because many different majors can lead to a career in business, especially given the networks available among alums of elite schools.
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Since the OP applied to both business degrees and non-business degrees, I would take that to mean he’s considering different paths to his goal. Just because Stern was ED1 doesn’t mean that is the only path he sees – it was just his favorite at the time he applied. That doesn’t mean that WashU is second best for him – only he can decide that. It may be, it may not. The folks here have given him lots to think about and he can use that info to make a more informed decision about the direction he wants to go. Since I went to a LAC (that had a good amount of people going into finance jobs), I see that path as a valid one; but not the only (or perhaps not the best of any one individual). I agree that the LACs are very much fit schools, and bigger schools like WashU probably have a wider range of people, but I think at this point visits are the best way for the OP to determine his comfort level here. I agree that plans can change and fit will be important to having a successful college experience, which could be had at any school but only if the OP feels it.
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My D went through the motions (mostly at my urging) in i bank interviews as a physics major at Wesleyan and had opportunities that she could have pursued rather easily. She just didn’t like the vibe of that crowd - at her school and the people who interview. She was a little naive back then, but nothing a few years of paying taxes to Uncle Sam and the state of MA didn’t resolve.
Serious quant skills move the needle. Of course, banks would prefer to have someone who has at least heard of a balance sheet (my D had not), and I’ll admit I’ve seen the pendulum swing in favor of plug-and-play applicants over the years. But I think it’s swinging back some, and if you’re a strong quant you always have a puncher’s chance even if you don’t know the accounting equation or how to do a DCF analysis.
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These posts should be pinned. A lot of people miss this. They want smart people who can think. Sometimes that’s a BA in Business Administration; often, it is not.
Somewhere upthread OP said something about accounting. I assume this has been said or that OP knows, but just in case: if that’s a real possibility, then you have to hedge your bets and attend a college with a business school. You’re not going to study accounting in the NESCAC.
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Hey everyone-
Thank you all again for such wise advice. Since my last post, I’ve spoken to a few people at WashU, and Midd (Bowdoin has not gotten back to me) at their career centers. I am still super pumped to visit these schools!!
As to my preference to NYU -
1: It’s my “hometown” (I’m an immigrant but grew up in Brooklyn for most my life). I live in a single parent home and living just an hour away from would be such a privilege. I’m also very familiar with the City so not a major adjustment compared to a St. Louis / Vermont / Maine.
2: I know dozens of people there. Bunch of my HS friends, College App mentor goes there right now and he connected me with people on e-boards at Stern. So I knew I’d have a leg up to connections and mentorship at Stern. I even went to club meetings lol…
3: The aid would’ve been really good- my family qualifies for the NYU promise.
4: I could reasonably get into the school in the ED2 round (Columbia was wayyy to out of reach and they ended up rejecting me). I wanted to do ED1 but my essays were not strong enough. I applied QB and was not selected as a finalist so I had to work long and hard to rethink my admissions strategy.
5: It was a place where I could dorm, and have something of a college experience. I do not and will not commute to and from Baruch/Hunter.
Yes - at NYU I would study finance. I know I probably could’ve gotten into CAS/Gallatin/LS but I think the opportunity cost is too high and outcomes from those schools pail in comparison to Stern. Transferring in is also very hard and not guaranteed unlike my spots at WashU/Midd.
As to my preference in the education I wish to receive (and my attraction to the LACs), was not a major concern for me. My academic stats really worried me when I was applying (1530 sat BUT only top 20% in a school riddled with GPA inflation- I struggled a bit during my freshmen/sophomore years) and so I reallllly broaden my range in the schools I applied to. I know these schools have great academic support and I would enjoy either side of the education coin. I’m well aware of the differences of a Liberal Arts education vs a business school education. I don’t think my interests will really change much. But I do understand why a WashU might be good since there are just much more academic fields to explore.
Earlier this week, I was speaking with the Midd Finance advisor who really emphasized the “specializations” of degrees. Liberal degrees and their focus on learning up vs a business degree and its’ focus on the quantitative side of business. A Olin kid will know how to create a DCF from memory whereas a Midd kid might be able to learn it and apply it but also connect it with other models. As someone in this thread said (and similar to what the Finance advisor said) is that firms understand how well students from LACs can learn (mini MBA camp lol) hence why firms like GS, MS make Midd a target.
I personally reached out to the admissions rep of almost all the schools I applied to and had 1 on 1 conversations with many of them about their respective school. I was well aware exactly the type of school I would be applying to.
To be honest, I was SHOCKED when I found out I got into these schools. I think it mostly has to do with my ECs that are almost all political where I’ve focused my attention to the betterment of student policies in NYS. I know I’m falling into the “Bermuda Triangle of Talent” but genuinely - what other path is there? I do have a serious interest and fascination in finance and to combine it with my interest in public help into something high paying. But, that is not the reality of the world I will be inheriting. Not with these home prices, not with these gas prices, and not with the exponentially growing social pressures from my generation and my mom’s. It’s so easy for everyone in the world to say “pursue your passions” or “the job will come - just get a college degree” but I’ve come to realize that the world does not run like that. The salaries of some people I know who are pursing their passions in social work, or public interest is just not what I am looking for. Hence my main focus on finance. See, I’ve already landed a finance related internship for this summer, so I’m pretty confident I can land something wherever I go. Sorry for the little rant…
I think at the end of the day - my decision will really come down to the last minute. I’ll be talking to an Olin alum over the coming days (connected from one of my professors in a HS program – the connections we make in life, right??) to talk about alum experiences at the school. I’ll be visiting Midd very soon and talking with current students, and people at the advising office. I’ve followed up with people at Bowdoin multiple times and no one has gotten back to me. To be frankly honest… it’s left a sour taste in my mouth. I’ll still be visiting (since its on their dime lol) but I’m now leaning towards Midd vs Olin.
I might hedge my bets and go to Olin… but to be honest, it might just come down to on campus vibes or even if Midd can match the aid offer Bowdoin/Wesleyan are offering. Loans is not something I want to graduate with. Oh.. and I haven’t been considering Wesleyan very heavily since their fly in is on the same day’s as Midd’s and I like Midd a bit better. But-- if for some reason I end up not liking the other 3, I’ll make sure to visit Wesleyan on my own dime.
Thank you again to everyone! You’ve all given me lots to think about. I will make sure to report back the vibes from WashU, Bowdoin, and Midd!!!
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Makes sense. Here’s something to chew on in the meantime:
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You have a great process going for deciding! Enjoy your visits and if possible, please do keep us updated on how it goes and what you decide.
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As you have a little under a month to decide, and as you seem confident in what you are looking for, your approach is solid. It’s always unfortunate when admissions, who are not going to be involved with you after this spring s, manage to make a school less attractive. Glad you’re still visiting, and hope that the visits make things clear.
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