This is where people have to do legwork. A colleague of mine was told last fall there are certain scholarships there where they want FAFSA 
1 Like
For sure they have budgets! And even nonprofits and such have to stay on budget.
And if you spend some time looking at their operating budgets (which is the sort of thing I do for fun, whatever that says about me), it quickly becomes very, very clear that the more gift wealth they have (which can be via the endowment, but also gifts for current operations), then likely the lower the percentage of their operating budget they need net tuition to cover (net of aid). So yes, more gift wealth can mean less net tuition which means more generous aid.
BUT they still have to make that budget! So they canât just zero out net tuition, they still need it to hit whatever target they have in their operating budget. And so they will logically do what it takes to stay on budget.
Which was the gist of the lawsuit I mentioned, that even nominally need blind colleges were finding ways to make sure they stayed on budget, which at the margins was advantaging applicants with a higher ability to pay.
I think thereâs some nuance here.
I know from when my daughter applied a couple of years ago that no FAFSA was required (we didnât file, and I had an email confirmation from the school that it wasnât required). My D got a substantial amount of merit aid so I know this to be true.
However, if you file FAFSA, they consider you for additional scholarships that consider your need.
3 Likes
My advice is for students to contact their AO and askâŚitâs an easy question to ask and starts building a relationship with the AO which can be an advantage.
1 Like
A piece of advice I have seen on this board is to fill out the NPC at Princeton. If you donât qualify for any need based financial aid at Princeton, it is pretty safe to say you wonât qualify anywhere.
3 Likes
We did something similar. I also played with the NPC a bit to figure out what was happening, and what would have to be different to get in range.
We had this experience. My kid got a large and unusual merit scholarship at a flagship that required the FAFSA. We didnât know ahead of time, we just did it as parents navigating the process for the first time. How it was explained to me is schools like to know you donât qualify for federal funds before doling out their funds. If they can get you to the same price point and throw more merit at another student who then may be more likely to attend, that is to their advantage.
We are full pay everywhere (including Princeton). So if you are hoping for merit, Iâd do your homework carefully here. We just did it for kid #2 as well to cover all those bases just in case. We were not (nor could actually comfortably/safely x2 kids) be full pay at high end privates. So didnât really care if that hurt in admissions.
The most generous schools (like Princeton, MIT) still manage to have around 40% of their student body full pay. Many at 50% or higher. They also manage to enroll private school students 4-5x the national rate. You can dig around in common data sets to get a sense of this for indivdual schools. Need blind schools have admission offices that know how to hit budget by targeting institutional needs that get them there.
3 Likes
This is not always true. There are scenarios where Princeton will give no need-based financial aid, but some other colleges will give some need-based financial aid. Specifically, the situation where the student is supported by a low/middle income/wealth custodial parent (not remarried in Princetonâs case) but has a high income/wealth non-custodial parent, or a non-cooperating (for college financial aid forms) one.
Given how common divorce is, this scenario is likely quite common.
A silly follow up question:
Is NOT filing a FAFSA / CSS âsuperiorâ for admissions purposes to filing one and getting rejected for all need based aid?
The odd thing is that either way, you wind up in the same placeâi.e., you donât qualify for need based aid.
But does one path give you an admissions advantage?
- If we KNOW FOR CERTAIN that we will not qualify for ANY need based financial aidâŚshould we fill out a FAFSA or CSS Profile?
I have had people tell me that you SHOULD because some schools require a FAFSA/CSS for merit aid. I have had some people tell me that you SHOULD NOT because by not submitting a FAFSA/CSS, you clearly signal to schools that you are full pay and they will love you for that (lol).
there are a few colleges that do want the financial aid forms completed even for merit aidâŚbut VERY few. If you are seeking only merit aid, itâs my opinion you are not required to file a FAFSA or Profile if the college uses Profile. But check the websites.
Regarding colleges âloving youâ for being full pay? Thatâs a definite maybe. If a school is need blind for admissions, admissions will have NO idea what your financial situation is, if you applied for aid, etc. If a school is need aware and you have no needâŚthis might help for admissions at a small number of collegesâŚbut itâs not going to likely make or break an application decisions.
- One wealthy father that we know claims that he somehow TOLD schools that his family would be full pay. His daughter went on to get into a prestigious school. This same guy retired and moved away so I canât follow up with him. My question isâŚhow does one tell the school that you are full pay? By not submitting a FAFSA/CSS? By checking a box in the Common App? By calling the college? By telling your high school college counselor who feeds this information to colleges through secret back channels (again, lol).
if you donât complete any of the financial aid forms, the school will rightly determine you plan to pay the full cost of attendance.
- The controversial questionâŚif schools know that you are full pay, are they more likely to admit you? I suspect that this answer depends on the wealth of the school, whether the school is need aware/need blind, and whether or not the school promises to meet 100% of financial need for other students.
answer isâŚit depends on the college. If you think being full pay will significantly move the admissions needle, it probably wonâtâŚbut at some need aware collegesâŚit might be the thing that admits your kid vs a similar kid who needs a lot of aid.
The same guy who moved away said that some schools are so wealthy that they really donât care. But the ânext tier downâ REALLY love full pays.
I donât think your wealthy friend who moved away has a full picture.
Any perspectives on these 3 questions are welcomed and appreciated.
1 Like
Need aware colleges will know your level of financial need. If you have zero financial need, and therefore the college has no financial need to fund youâŚitâs the same as not applying for aid. You donât need any.
Just adding to my above commentâŚthose tippy top very wealthy collegesâŚsome do award need based aid to families with incomes in the $250,000 or so range. But they also mostly award zero merit aidâŚto anyone. The next tier down (whatever that means) might be a place where your top student could garner merit aid.
My rule of thumbâŚif you think you will want need based financial aidâŚapply for it. OtherwiseâŚyou donât need to.
Many of those very wealthy colleges will cost $100,000 a year or moreâŚif you feel comfortable paying that, you donât need to apply for aid.
1 Like
This is absolutely true at most places for international students. There are a very small number of colleges that DO put restrictions on applying for need based aid in subsequent years for U.S. citizens if they donât apply as incoming freshmen.
AgainâŚlook on the financial aid website. And if you arenât sureâŚcall!
Some scholarships also have a need component.
3 Likes
OP: I thought you have a Harvard MBA? We should be asking you financial advice.
2 Likes
LOL. The vagaries of the financial aid process were not covered by the HBS curriculum.
2 Likes
Yes, I mentioned two in my postâŚCRWU and Drexel.
1 Like
Skidmore used to have something that if you didnât apply, you couldnât apply for two years for institutional aid. I do not know if that is the case stillâŚor not.
But the number of colleges with this restriction for U.S. citizens isnât very big.
But itâs the case at just about every college for international students.
Iâm just messing. I know your heading should have been: Is FAFSA necessary if we wonât need aid.
IMO: schools are used to see all the forms submitted. Even though you donât need it, taking the 30 min to fill it out will probably make some office secretary happy so they can check off all the boxes.
Like I mentioned, even the community college my kids enroll in email them almost every other month to remind them they are missing FAFSA forms. Nevermind they are in HS, enroll for free and probably wouldnât qualify for aid anyway. We submit the form just to stop those annoying emails.
1 Like
I have a quick and easy rule of thumb to determine which private schools would likely have a finger on the scale (see? two competing hand metaphors) for a full pay kid.
Look at the list which is generally published in early May of colleges which are still accepting applications. Some of these are fantastic âadmissions bargainsâ-- for whatever reason, they did not hit their enrollment number, sometimes because they ran out of money and therefore only offered token aid to kids they are taking off the waitlist-- or had to cut various awards across the board.
They typically donât promise to meet full need. A kid who is full pay and wants to know where that will move the needle- check out this yearâs list and bookmark it for when you are ready to make an application list. And some of these are absolutely fantastic institutions. But right now, rural is a hard sell (kids want to be in or near Boston, NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, not in a corn field-- even in states which donât grow corn, thatâs the perception). But a kid can get a terrific education at a lot of these âweâre still accepting studentâ institutions.
OP- for your biggest bank for the buck right now- do a financial deep dive. Every credit card statement, every recurring auto-pay for insurance, streaming. Every investment statement. The balance on your mortgage. Paid up value of your life insurance policies, IRA/401K.
Many people- even affluent people- assume âSure we can come up with X dollars a monthâ (X is what you think you can cash flow). But we both know thatâs not true. If it were, youâd have been saving that amount and stashing it in the kidâs 529 already. So unless you have a full funded 529, do the math now. Figure out where every dime is coming in, and where every nickel is going out. Itâs painful for sure, but it will help you establish a budget. There is often a VERY big gap between what your kid thinks you can afford (Hey we live in a nice house and take cool vacations so of course we wonât qualify for need based aid and of course we can swing 80 or 90K per year for college) and what you can actually afford. And the earlier you have this conversation, the easier itâs going to be to figure out an application strategy.
People you know are going to tell you âJohnny got an incredible scholarship at Clown college. They are basically paying him to attendâ. You will have figured out the real scoop- itâs a 5K merit award from the Clown College enrollment strategy⌠parents get to brag, it doesnât cost much to offer every kid with a B average or higher a âmerit awardâ.
But figure out where every tuition payment is going to come from. And out of that comes a budget, and out of that comes a successful application season. Donât be the ogre who has to tell the kid âof your 5 acceptances, the only one we can afford is the one you loath which you applied to because your guidance counselor insistedâ.
3 Likes