<p>As I understand, The Honorable Elijah Muhammad used to speak to god at a payphone wherein “God” would presumably accept the charges and offer divine guidance in getting the whole thing off the ground floor: thus, the Nation of Islam is born (not to be confused with Islam).</p>
<p>-not sure about their stance on polygamy.</p>
<p>“not sure about their stance on polygamy”</p>
<p>Do they marry at all? I know several members (which is certainly not a total picture, of course) and all three have various “baby mamas” but no wives.</p>
<p>I object to the description of Jeffs as a leader of a “polygamous Mormon sect.” Makes it sound like the group is part of the Mormon mainstream…</p>
<p>“I object to the description of Jeffs as a leader of a “polygamous Mormon sect.” Makes it sound like the group is part of the Mormon mainstream…”</p>
<p>That’s exactly what it doesn’t do. The description specifies that it’s a sect.</p>
<p>I hadn’t realized that the word “sect” had a heretical slant to it. Maybe I am misunderstanding the word. </p>
<p>Sect:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>a group regarded as heretical or as deviating from a generally accepted religious tradition. [This definition works if the generally accepted religious tradition is Mormonism.] </p></li>
<li><p>any group, party, or faction united by a specific doctrine or under a doctrinal leader. [This is the definition that I associate with the word “sect.” And the polygamous group is certainly NOT united with the mainstream Mormon church.]</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks, zoosermom–I like to learn things…</p>
<p>Ellen, I was afraid when I posted that you would be angry and take my response in a bad light. Thank you for not doing so!</p>
<p>I should have been more clear. Jewish law does limit the number of wives to 18.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/america_4.html[/url]”>http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/america_4.html</a></p>
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<p>And there’s Mary Baker Eddy.</p>
<p>Or Aimee Semple McPhereson? She was one of the first Pentacostal ministers to really get huge crowds at her revivals.</p>
<p>ZM, your PM box is full.</p>
<p>Aries: heh.</p>
<p>Thanks the Dad. Fixing it now. sorry.</p>
<p>Well, TheDad, would you like to change my religion? Or only require that all holy wines be bubbly, preferably arriving in orange & black bottles? ;)</p>
<p>Because I could live with that change. In fact, the clouds are parting right now…</p>
<p>Regarding Under the Banner of Heaven: As Krakauer points out,it may seems silly that Joseph Smith was able to translate the tablets that disappeared by sticking his head in a black bag or that he received revelations from God, but the origin of all religions can seem silly. A man born of a virgin and rising from the dead? Hmmmm… Praying to multiple Gods on Olympus for various reasons? Or praying to multiple “lesser-dieties” (Saints or the Virgin Mary) for various reasons? Battles between Titans and Olympians? Or battles between God and Satan? Marrying a child? Disgusting to me, but Catholics believe that Mary was a few months beyond 14 years old when she was betrothed to Joseph, giving birth when she was just 15.</p>
<p>If anyone would like my new essay on the “Sanctum Praeputium”, e-mail me privately.</p>
<p>Digmedia: On the subject of Mary’s age: </p>
<p>March 24, 2006</p>
<p>France Raises Age of Marriage for Women to 18</p>
<p>French women will now need to be 18 years or older to consent to marry, three years older than previously required by law. The French parliament passed the law as a method of preventing forced marriages, reports Ireland Online, and the French standard is now aligned with other states that belong to the European Union.</p>
<p>Ireland Online also reports that the new law marks the first change to the legal age for marriage age since 1804, when Napoleon enacted his Napoleonic Code. For 200 years, women’s age of consent has been 15, while men’s has been 18. In addition to the marriage age, the law addresses marital rape and abuse. According to BBC, the French parliament is also passing laws to combat child pornography, female genital mutilation, and sex tourism.</p>
<p><a href=“News & Opinion Archives - Ms. Magazine”>News & Opinion Archives - Ms. Magazine;
<p>The concept of childhood as a separate stage of life is of rather recent coinage. Many societies allowed girls to marry as soon as they reached puberty, i.e., around 12 or 13. So Mary’s age would not raise eyebrows.</p>
<p>digmedia #33 and mini #34: I am rendered speechless by your bigoted witticisms (not the first time either).</p>
<p>^^I took digmedia’s point to be merely that before you laugh too hard at the absurd-sounding origins or teachings of someone else’s religion, it may be worth considering that the roots of your own religion may well sound just as unlikely.</p>
<p>There is a far-fetched story behind pretty much every religion. It’s just that some have been around longer and thus are more familiar.</p>
<p>Okay, except <em>I</em> wasn’t “laughing” at the “absurd-sounding origins or teaching of someone else’s religion” (in this case, the Mormons), because I respect everyone’s religious beliefs. I just don’t make it a habit to laugh at other people’s religious beliefs. Obviously, others here do.</p>
<p>Those who know me here, know I used to get pretty prickly when I would detect Christian-bashing comments on these boards…and oh I wrote some pretty indignant and pious posts back then. But you know what I have come to realize? Those comments did nothing to diminish my faith…they took nothing from me. But my objections to them took something from others…the right to express themselves freely.</p>
<p>So I’m not offended with coureur’s point at all…in fact, it is true. On face value, the origins of my religion, Christianity, IS hard to believe and is no more far-fetched than the origins of newer religions. But that’s were the faith part comes in. </p>
<p>We each have our right to believe as we wish…and to speak our minds freely. So I respect the right of someone to believe and follow the tenets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I would hope they would respect my right to vehemently disagree with those tenets and be vocal about it if I choose.</p>
<p>Laughing at someone else’s religion is a form of criticism. No religion is so important that it cannot be criticized. For example, I do laugh at cultures who think their religion requires women to wear black clothing covering their entire bodies. I laugh at/ criticize past religions that believed human sacrafice pleased God. I laugh at/criticize past religions requiring worshipers to have holes cut in their skulls while alive (most of these religions died out). I laugh at/ criticize religions believing young woman should have their genitals mutilated to please God.</p>
<p>When people engage in stupid behavior that behavior does not suddently become without reproach because someone thinks he is pleasing God.</p>