<p>Nothing will change.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Most things can’t change. Doctrines can’t change. Only customs can change.</p>
<p>We survived the Mayan doomsday prediction and the jump off the fiscal cliff, will we survive the * Prophecy of the Popes*? According to St. Malachy’s prophecy Benedict XVI may be the last real pope before the leadership of Petrus Romanus who will orchestrate the end of the RCC.</p>
<p>According to an examiner article written back in 2010, ([The</a> prophecy of the popes - Charleston Spirituality | Examiner.com](<a href=“Examiner is back - Examiner.com”>Examiner is back - Examiner.com))
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<p>A review of the book, Petrus Romanus: The Final Pope Is Here, claims that the Belgian Jesuit Rene Thibaut calculated the reign of the last pope, the“Glory of the olive” pope, will end on 2012. Thibaut explained his calculations in his 1951 book, The Mysterious Prophecy of the Popes. Thibaut’s calculation is off by a few months.</p>
<p>Another review of Fr. Thibaut’s book wrote that Thibaut thinks “Peter the Roman” may not be an actual pope but instead Petrus Romanus symbolizes all the Roman pontiffs since St. Peter and the “end” of RCC may mean future Popes will change their residence and the papacy will be outside the Vatican city.</p>
<p>I have great respect for the man. He felt he was no longer up to the rigors of the job and chose to exit before his health and mental acuity deteriorated any further.</p>
<p>As an outside observer, it will be interesting to read the guesses about the internal warfare concerning the direction of church policy, which group wins, etc. I saw the last election as important because Benedict was the opposite of a compromise candidate; he was elected specifically to impose discipline and to focus the message of the church apparatus. That discipline is being felt all through the establishment, in schools, in politics, in the appointments made, etc. </p>
<p>That not only affects Catholics but all people. In the US, for example, we now have 6 Catholic and 3 Jewish Supreme Court justices. No Protestant for the first time in US history and that, of course, is largely because Protestant legislators support Catholic justices, Sotomayor excepted, because they are the best vote against abortion other than Evangelicals and those cannot now be approved. </p>
<p>I’m not trying to be political, not trying to say what vote is right or wrong, but the simple truth is the Church under Benedict has not only become more “conservative”, whatever that means, but more directly confrontational with much of the rest of society. An example is the argument over contraception coverage for women. One can believe what one wants about the church’s approach being good or bad. But it is important to note that doctrinal positions and the enforcement of authority among adherents has large scale social consequences. We will all to a degree be living through a discussion of that as the Cardinals fight it out. </p>
<p>BTW, as a Jew, I think Benedict has been more forthright in speaking to us than any pope since John XXIII. </p>
<p>Remember that it was only in 1980 that JPII ordered priests to resign from elected political office. So for example, Robert Drinan was a Jesuit priest who served in Congress from MA for 10 years - until he was ordered out. He introduced the first impeachment resolution about Nixon, not for Watergate but for the bombing of Cambodia. You can see in this how the church’s orders affect politics and larger society.</p>
<p>It’s possible we’ll see the first American pope in Timothy Dolan, who will be considered at least a candidate for pope due to his popularity and by betting lines. </p>
<p>The current favorite is from Ghana, Peter Turksen, so we may also see the first black pope too.</p>
<p>I don’t see how anyone could have even a modicum of respect for a man who did everything in his power to protect child rapists. A vile man that will not be missed.</p>
<p>I like Cardinal Dolan’s answer to Diane Sawyer about that, "Is this ABC News or Comedy Central?
There would always be some humor with Cardinal Dolan, that’s for sure. : )</p>
<p>I was surprised to hear this news today, and shed a tear at the thought of what must have been a very difficult decision for the Pope. It is hard to realize that it has already been almost 8 years since the death of JPII. As a traditional Catholic, I’ll remember Benedict XVI for his Motu Proprio of July 7, 2007, which made the Latin Mass once again more widely available. I have no idea who the next Pope might be, but since the electing cardinals were named by JPII and Benedict, it seems that the next Pope will also be fairly conservative.</p>
<p>I think it is too soon for Timothy Dolan…5 more years and he would have had a good shot at it.</p>
<p>The rumor mill thinks that for security reasons the Pope Benedict will have to live in Vatican City after he retires. Me…I would choose some wonderful mountain top Schloss in Bavaria or maybe even a delightful cottage in the Black Forest.</p>
<p>One of the oddest museums I ever went to was across the street from Notre Dame in Paris. Hanging from the ceiling at all different heights were maybe 30 or 40 different styles of Cardinal hats.</p>
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<p>Certainly he has many admirable deeds, but do you respect him knowing that he willingly covered up and protected priests that abused children? When he headed the Church taskforce in investigating such cases, he even dissuaded bishops from reporting abuse cases to outside authorities (i.e police, etc) and threatened with dire penalties. For example, it was known for years by Ratzinger that a father each in Mexico and Arizona were abusing men but he did nothing until years later.</p>
<p>ex-Benedict…</p>
<p>I’m rooting for a woman Pope, as in the 9th Century. Or at least another gay one, as in very recent memory.</p>
<p>It would NOT be the first African Pope, and likely not the first Black one - that was Victor I.</p>
<p>The press is talking about this in terms of a debate about focusing more on core believers - and the discipline imposed on those who choose to be Catholic - versus those who want outreach. I wonder if that’s not a Western press idea and I also wonder how this is viewed by the European Cardinals.</p>
<p>In much of the world, Catholicism is essentially the state religion coupled with native traditions and beliefs that have nothing to do with Christianity but have been absorbed. But it bears little resemblance to the Church in the US or Europe. And in the US the Church seems very different and somewhat more militant these days than in Europe. </p>
<p>I remember last time there was talk about whether the Church would start to shift toward the Spanish-speaking world. (The use of “Latin World” there would be confusing.) And when the Europeans kept winning, the talk was about differences in practice and belief with distrust - and I assume all sorts of doctrinal and other arguments - about these other churches being more involved with actual politics, having more non-Christian and non-Catholic elements integrated into at least local practice, etc. I assume a typical Western Cardinal transplanted to what is a combined folk/Catholic ceremony/festival would feel extremely out of place. That matters when you’re talking about the hands that steer this ship.</p>
<p>BTW, my feelings about Benedict are complicated. In Judaism, the idea mis-translated and mis-used as “chosen” means actually that we as a people and as individuals are bound to certain obligations. It is more literally “chosen to carry a specific burden”. Jews decide how to do that. Some go off the scale with devotion taking over all aspects of their lives. These people are as foreign to me as Martians would be and they have that hideous character of wanting to impose their version of truth on others. If you get into the history of Judaism in the US, for example, you see very detailed, intelligent conversations about how Jewish belief and practice fits into “the new world”. For example, Reform Judaism is rooted in Germany but flourished here - and note the word is “Reform” not “Reformed” because the intent from the start was that it was not to be fixed in time.</p>
<p>So I understand Benedict’s focus on discipline for Catholics: if you choose to be one, this is what you get. It’s like the old Marine saying: you can’t complain because you volunteered.</p>
<p>That said, Benedict and the Church have the same issues we see in small, cultish Jewish sects in NYC but writ large: abuse of power, abuse of children, abuse of women, imposition of rules for the sole purpose of requiring adherence (meaning with the intent of increasing dependence), and so on. When that kind of thing is put out across the world, we get the continuing Irish scandals - the latest being the grudging acknowledgement that the State cooperated with the Church to maintain people, mostly of course young women, in actual slavery in laundries by returned those who escaped. Or the Dutch revelations of huge numbers of abuse victims with the abusers protected. Or the horrifying revelation that a Cardinal in the US not only helped criminal abusers evade prosecution but that he now defends his actions as part of a personal “learning process” - a fine example of false confession and false repentance by a prince of the sect, admitting wrong from one side of the mouth while denying responsibility from the other. </p>
<p>This kind of abuse of power is a big reason why Jews do not trust the idea of central religious authority and it is a massive problem in Israel now because the devout sects have taken control of important functions - like immigration and conversion - and have begun to enforce their notions of God’s will on everyone else. It’s very difficult to argue with people who claim they know God’s intent and that you will be punished for disobeying what they say is God’s will. This has only become a problem in Judaism in recent years but of course it is what Catholics live with every day because the church enforces discipline and requires adherence through threats of eternal punishment and promises of eternal rewards, neither of which any human being or any human organization can actually speak about with knowledge. It used to be in Judaism that discipline consisted of shunning and banishment, as happened to Spinoza, a real world punishment for rightly or wrongly offending the community. </p>
<p>So I understand the idea of discipline and obligation behind Benedict but I think the model is fundamentally flawed and fundamentally leads to evils associated with abuse of power.</p>
<p>The idea of a 9th C. female pope has been discredited by serious religion historians as an anti-papist ruse. Furthermore, I am amazed that someone has information about the sexuality of a recent pope. Is this first hand knowledge? Or perhaps gossip from someone who repeatedly disparages the Church?</p>
<p>The lack of convincing evidence from the 9th Century is what one can say about just about everything from the 9th Century. It hasn’t been “discredited” - all historians can say is that the story from the 13th Century has not been corroborated. Jean de Mailly was a Dominican, and definitely NOT anti-papist.</p>
<p>As to our recent gay pope - no, I didn’t have sex with him. (He wasn’t my type. ;)) (I didn’t have sex with any of the other openly gay popes either - that would be necrophilia.)</p>
<p>As a wayward Catholic (kids fit into the ‘punch card’ category) I was surprised by this announcement. Although change within the Church often comes at half the speed of a sloth, change does happen. What I do still admire about the CC is it’s ability (albeit SLOW ability) to integrate some of what has happened in the modern world into it’s dogma. (some may not like what this ‘integration’ amounts too…but it is integration non the less). It took courage for the current pope to make this decision.</p>
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I also find it reassuring that certain topics will guarantee derogatory and inflammatory remarks from a known cast of characters. Yes, into each life some certainly must fall.</p>
<p>Why speculate on the sexuality of others? What’s the point? As a non-Catholic, I really don’t care about the Pope let alone his sexuality. </p>
<p>The only time I care about the church is when people twist the Bible to fit their bigotry flavor the day and use that to deny rights in a secular government. Other than that, live and let live.</p>
<p>Thanks dietz, I needed that. I have got to remember it is only spew from a usual suspect.</p>
<p>Not a Catholic but I too feel that a Papal candidate from Africa may be desired by adherents of Benedict’s policies, if African Catholic Bishops are notoriously conservative/devout as African Anglicans.</p>