In white majority areas (which is most of the US), whiteness is the default state, and is usually what sets the standard of decent treatment, while racial inequality means that other races suffer a penalty relative to the default state.
Now, in the fishbowl of people of privilege (i.e. high SES, stable or upward career mobility, heavily represented on this forum), talk of “white privilege” may be recognition of the lack of penalty that people of other races may encounter. But how do you think that sounds to white people of lower SES looking at downward career mobility, etc.? Such people probably see themselves as lacking any kind of privilege, and to say that they have some kind of privilege (with the implication that it should be taken away) is more likely to drive them to opposition (as can be seen by polls and surveys these days).
In other words, how one words the description of something like racial inequality can have a significant effect on how it is received and whether someone will react with support or opposition. And the situation of the listener can be significant.
Yes, many of the things that people describe as “white privilege” are things that many would want to be “rights” (for everyone) rather than “privileges”. But the term “privilege” implies that such things can (and should in some cases) be taken away.
Well said, ucb. One of the political parties is getting a lot of traction from whites who, while they don’t get stopped for driving while black, sure don’t feel that they are the recipients of any kind of privilege.
At the end of the day, they still have white skin, which in and of itself, affords them rights/priveleges that I dont have even though I am part of a high earning Black family. Suddenly certain folks are screaming because jobs are drying up, opportunities arent available, incomes arent increasing, etc. We have been screaming about these things for YEARS, then toss unfair treatment, discrimination, etc into the mix.
I would invite everyone to read this article, even with a college degree black unemployment is twice as high as whites
Partyof5, you really believe that your life, all in all, is not better than that of a poor, uneducated white man in Appalachia, or a poor, uneducated white working class stiff whose factory job has been outsourced?
I don’t think that’s what @partyof5 is saying, @Pizzagirl . My brother is the exact same age as my H. He is less educated, and self-employed, so he doesn’t have the income my H has. He’s gone through long periods of unemployment, while my H has always worked. However, he has never experienced discrimination such as I mentioned in my post earlier. When he gets loud and bombastic, that’s just “John be John” (not his real name), but if my H so much as raises his voice, he’s been literally called an “angry black man”.
Poor whites DO have “privilege” because that’s what it’s called, even if it’s more of a “penalty” against blacks". It’s because they’re white, nothing more, just for existing.
I don’t disagree with the fact discrimination, black “penalty,” white “privilege,” whatever you want to call it exists. Should white people who get treated well tell whoever’s doing it (assuming they are white) say “are you treating me this way just because I’m white?” Or “thank you for your compliment/service/understanding etc., and I’m sure you will treat all black people the same, right?” Should they automatically assume anyone, especially white people, treating them well is doing is solely because of their race and preemptively accuse them of racism or hint at it?
@albert69 - the problem with “don’t assume you’re getting privilege because you’re white” is that heck YES we are getting privilege for being white. We all live in this cultural soup which is saltier in some spots than others - but we’re all in it, and no one is immune (maybe in some isolated multi-race hermit family people could be, I guess).
When I returned my fruit, the store lady might have thought that my clothes were worn or new or that I was polite or not, or whatever else she used to determine my believeabilty - but I benefitted from being the “norm” or “regular” kind of person so she didn’t necessarily even register my skin color. For that reason, whether she was racist or not, I had privilege.
And I was thinking about this more after being reasonably challenged on CC - suppose the store lady also gave new fruit to the next Black woman who came in with the same complaint - because I know the clerk is living in the soup like we all are, it seems almost certain that she thought about race in the course of the fruit decision, and it took longer to do the right thing. This is borne out by research on reaction times even in people with very anti-racist conscious thought patterns. (It is reversed, apparently, by intense study of nonracist images, like pictures of famous positive role models of diverse races.)
I teach some special courses for minority kids as part of STEM enrichment. I was telling a relative about how after researching “stereotype threat,” I always begin by saying that this kind of enrichment has been proven to improve minority achievement in STEM. My relative said, “isn’t that kind of rude, to mention that they are minorities”? And she does not mean at all to be racist, but that is a racist question. She was very chagrined and I believe understood completely, when I asked her, “would it be rude to acknowledge your Jewishness in context, or would it be better for someone to pretend/assume that you and everyone else must be celebrating Christmas - even if they know full well you aren’t?”
What can be done to convince people in this demographic that eliminating racial inequality is in everyone’s (including their own) interest, and that increasing non-white population in the US is nothing to fear? (Whatever has been done up to now does not seem to have worked.)
We need people within that community to communicate with their peers. The highly educated, mostly upper-middle-class people on this thread aren’t going to be able to come up with the right message.
As I type this the ad at the bottom of my screen is for a health care company and shows a black doctor and a white doctor in surgery. This kind of thing matters. One small thing we can all do is fight for inclusive images in whatever way we can.
For example, I was in a position where I needed to choose a Sunday School curriculum for use on a military base. You would be surprised how hard it is to purchase Sunday School curriculum with a diversity of ethnicities in both it’s written and pictured material. And if you are opposed to all angels being presented as beautiful blondes your challenges really grow. I did find some but it wasn’t easy.
This is white privilege no matter your socio-economic status. Growing up surrounded by images and stories that present people who look like you as successful, the norm, the ordinary.
This is starting to change and some people don’t like it.
"pro-racism politicians "
I have read this entire thread and I think it has been quite interesting and surprisingly not volatile or too political. I haven’t read a single post that would indicate anyone on this thread is racist or approves of racism, yet there has been a good discussion with varying points of view and definitions. I believe throwing into the discussion “pro-racism politicians” is not only wrong but counterproductive. I do not see any pro-racist politicians. I do not believe any candidate right now is racist, they just have differing points of view. I am an independent and I’m currently undecided on November election. I am trying to weed through all of the hatred on both sides ( and there is hatred on both sides) and come to a decision. It’s not easy in this negative political climate.
@mom23travelers when my D was little, it was a challenge to find books with kids of color-oh, they’re out there, but this was before Amazon and in the stores, not so much. But what really struck me was the commercials on television. It’s not that we didn’t see minorities represented, it that when they WERE, it was almost never in a positive way. You’d see happy, dancing blond girls in pretty dresses in the laundry commercials, playing with toys in the toy commercials, and then in the drug awareness ads, you’d see that one lost black girl at the fence of an amusement park-all alone at night.
That kind of negative bias has been around for decades in so many different ways that it’s hard to realize how insidious it is. I worked very hard to make sure my D knew that what she saw in the media-ANY media did not define her or anyone who did not look like “the norm”. When the paper printed a front page photo of little ballerinas, all white with their neat little buns, I reminded her that at her community center, in addition to hip hop and break dance, there were black kids in the ballet class too. Our home library was full of books with kids of all colors and backgrounds. I felt this deliberate multicultural approach in our house only benefited our D.
@Hanna and @ ucbalumnus - maybe the Liberal Redneck can get through to his people. He is funny, so that can crack open some doors, and hopefully minds. Here he talks about BLM. Strong language alert, especially at the beginning.
Unfortunately, it appears that discussing racism tends to increase racism, because most people tend to get inflamed by it due to real or perceived racial threats against them, particularly since it tends to show up in the news as an inflammatory sound bite (and social media tends to share the most inflammatory stuff found on the most partisan news) instead of a thoughtful discussion.
In this context, using the term “white privilege” discussed previously might not be the best way to help reduce racism. Telling white people (particularly generally unprivileged ones) that they have “white privilege” that they must give up would probably result in the same unwanted reaction that telling them about the impending loss of majority status in the US, since majority status can be seen as a type of “white privilege” (albeit a functionally and practically useless one to those who are not racist).
How to make a difference? First, all sides need to stop making things about race. The reason someone did not get a job or did get a job is not likely about race, it may actually be the candidate as a whole.
Second, we all need to stop patronizing news outlets that drive wedges between us rather than celebrating our togetherness. As long as they get more hits, views or ratings because they are separating us, we will continue to get more divisive than less.
I had the good fortune to grow up as a military brat. Military children of that era, especially those of us who were children of enlisted personnel, grow up in ethnically diverse, but economically similar conditions. The only times we saw racial strife was when the base kids interacted with the locals. We all interacted well together. Misbehavior was properly place at the feet of the person doing the misbehaving. Not the others of their race nor the person who ‘ratted’ them out.
There will always be idiots who are racist. Don’t give them a forum to spread their hate. If the press ignores them, they tend to go away. Actual racists are few in number, but they get headlines as if they were most of the population.
This is probably almost all media. Of course, with so much existing divisiveness, even simple honest reporting of such with no partisan editorializing brings up divisiveness in people’s minds.
Unfortunately, actual racists are likely to be more than a few. When 22% of white Americans are very worried about the changing ethnic makeup of the US, and an additional 42% are somewhat worried, the proponents of increased racism have a built-in advantage in how well their messages are received.