Pouring Coffee with a B.A.

Barfly · September 26, 2011, 1:32am

paying3tuitions, you mention funeral service, but I would not recommend it! Horrible hours (nights, weekends, holidays), for obvious reasons, and the pay is not good. States I am familiar with require a sort of internship prior to taking the state boards. Some schools offer a 4 year degree, while some have a 12 month program for students who already have an associates or BS or BA degree. The capital outlay to open a business is huge, because you would have to have a building, parking, expensive equipment and inventory, cars (hearse, cars for the families, etc.). If you don’t own the business, there are very few jobs available and very little money, considering all the work and long hours.

gravenewworld · September 26, 2011, 1:57am

Go to a trade school. Yes it is several years of work and training, but at least you get paid while you learn AND a lot of the work that people in trades do can not be outsourced. After some experience, and depending on what type of field you go into, some electricians can make pretty comfortable middle class incomes.

Shrinkrap · September 26, 2011, 2:08am

Around here, those “trade” jobs are “union”, and it’s a little scary to hear about what it takes to get your foot in the door and to get work.

takeitallin · September 26, 2011, 2:33am

We have a gen’l contractor doing work on our house right now and his electrician, plumber, and tile-setters are union workers who can’t get work right now so are working “off the books”. We are in So Cal.- I’m sure it depends where you are.

How about bartenders and sewage treatment plant operators? Our son tended bar while in college and did very well- but it was hard work and very fast-paced.

annasdad · September 26, 2011, 2:36am

A good bartender at the right place can do very well. My sister-in-law has tended bar for an upscale restaurant chain for over 30 years and has built a very nice middle-class lifestyle with the income.

Vladenschlutte · September 26, 2011, 3:35am

This one cannot be true. That is simply too much money to make sense. 70K/year (presumably starting - I used the bottom of your range) for 40hrs of non-labor work with no degree?

sorghum · September 26, 2011, 3:36am

Oh, please, if 7% of ‘C’ students get into something, it isn’t ‘more difficult’ to get into than something that admits 8% of ‘A’ students.

WandMParent · September 26, 2011, 6:52am

I think the secret is that there is no secret. There really isn’t a career path that guarantees you a good-paying job. Not every lawyer finds a job; not every plumber lives comfortably; not everyone who goes to college or goes to a vocational school or takes an AP class ends up financially successful.

GlobalNomad · September 26, 2011, 7:01am

But isn’t this “America”? The “land of milk and honey” with “streets paved in gold”? Where anybody can pursue the “American dream” and has a chance to “succeed” / “make it big” / “get rich”, no matter your background? (Tongue firmly in cheek.)

I agree with WandMParent: There is no secret to success, there are no guarantees to a good-paying job with cradle to grave handouts like in the “olden days”.

It’s time to embrace the reality that hard work does not always pay off. And sometimes “getting by” is the best that can be expected, regardless of your “education” or “training”. (Hurts to say that though. >_<)

Classof2015 · September 26, 2011, 7:08am

I agree – not every one needs to go to college to get a decent paying job. I do mortgages, and part of the application asks for # years of school (and income, and employment info). 12 years is high school; 16 is college. I’ve seen people who are elevator repair technicians making $100K/year. No college.

compmom · September 26, 2011, 7:15am

This is a comprehensive list of two-year credit degrees, and one-year credit certificates. There is also a list of non-credit programs

Accounting (ACD)
Associate in Science

Accounting Certificate (ACN)
Credit Certificate

Animal Care Specialist (ASD)
Associate in Applied Science

Animal Care Specialist Certificate (ASC)
Credit Certificate

Aviation Management (AMD)
Associate in Science

Aviation Science Professional Pilot (AVD)
Associate in Science

Biotechnology (BOD)
Associate of Arts

Biotechnology Certificate (BOC)
Credit Certificate

Business Administration Transfer (BAT)
Associate of Arts

Child & Adolescent Behavioral Health Certificate (BHC)
Credit Certificate

Computer Aided Design Certificate (CAI)
Credit Certificate

Computer Applications (CED)
Associate in Science

Computer Applications Certificate (CEC)
Credit Certificate

Computer Information Systems (CIT)
Associate of Arts

Computer Networking (CKD)
Associate in Science

Computer Networking Certificate (CKC)
Credit Certificate

Computer Programming (CPD)
Associate in Science

Computer Science Transfer (CST)
Associate of Arts

Cosmetology Certificate (ZCS)
Clock Hour Certificate

Criminal Justice (CRD)
Associate in Science

Criminal Justice Certificate (CRC)
Credit Certificate

Culinary Arts & Food Service (CLD)
Associate in Applied Science

Culinary Arts & Food Service Certificate (CLC)
Credit Certificate

Developmental Disabilities (DDD)
Associate in Science

Developmental Disabilities Direct Support Certificate (DSC)
Credit Certificate

Dietary Management Certificate (DMC)
Credit Certificate

Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation (DAD)
Associate in Science

Early Care and Education Certificate Infant/Toddler Child Care (ITC)
Credit Certificate

Early Childhood Development (EDT)
Associate of Arts

Early Childhood Education (ECD)
Associate in Science

Elementary Education Transfer Program (EET)
Associate of Arts

Energy Utility Technology (ERD)
Associate in Science

Energy Utility Technology Certificate (ERC)
Credit Certificate

Engineering Science Transfer (EST)
Associate in Science

English as a Second Language (ELL)
Credit Certificate of Completion

Environmental Studies (EVT)
Associate of Arts

Executive Administrative Assistant (EAD)
Associate in Science

Fire Protection and Safety Technology (FPD)
Associate in Science

Fire Protection and Safety Technology FPS Professional Development Certificate (FPC)
Credit Certificate

Food Science & Safety (FSD)
Associate in Applied Science

Gerontology Certificate (GER)
Credit Certificate

Graphic Design - Integrated Media (IMD)
Associate in Science

Graphic Design Certificate (GDC)
Credit Certificate

Graphic Design-Print (GDD)
Associate in Science

Health Science (LHD)
Associate of Arts

Horticulture (HUD)
Associate in Applied Science

Hotel Management (HOD)
Associate in Science

Human Services Practitioner (HSD)
Associate in Science

Interdisciplinary Studies (IDT)
Associate of Arts

Law Enforcement Certificate (LEC)
Credit Certificate

Legal Administrative Assistant (LAD)
Associate in Science

Legal Office Support Certificate (LOS)
Credit Certificate

Liberal Arts (LAT)
Associate of Arts

Management (MGD)
Associate in Science

Marketing (MKD)
Associate in Science

Medical Administrative Assistant (MAD)
Associate in Science

Medical Assisting Certificate (MAC)
Credit Certificate

Medical Coding Certificate (MOC)
Credit Certificate

Medical Office Support Certificate (MOS)
Credit Certificate

Mental Health Certificate (MHC)
Credit Certificate

Nurse Education (NSG)
Associate in Science

Nutritional Science & Diet Technology (NSD)
Associate in Science

Occupational Therapy Assistant (OTA)
Associate in Science

Office Support Certificate (OFC)
Credit Certificate

Paraeducator Certificate (PAE)
Credit Certificate

Paralegal (PAD)
Associate in Science

Paralegal Certificate (PAC)
Credit Certificate

Physical Therapist Assistant (PTA)
Associate in Science

Practical Nursing Certificate (PNR)
Credit Certificate

Pre-Engineering (PET)
Associate of Arts

Radiologic Technology (RAD)
Associate in Science

Respiratory Care (RSP)
Associate in Science

Special Needs Certificate (SNC)
Credit Certificate

Substance Abuse Counseling Certificate (SAC)
Credit Certificate

Surgical Technology Certificate (SRG)
Credit Certificate

Travel, Tourism & Hospitality (TGD)
Associate in Science

Veterinary Technology (VET)
Associate in Applied Science

Web Development Certificate (WDV)
Credit Certificate

Wellness & Healing Arts Certificate (WHA)
Credit Certificate

Youth Worker (PYK)

compmom · September 26, 2011, 7:18am

Here is the non-credit program list:

This is a comprehensive list of non credit certificates of completion and certification training programs.

Aesthetics and Skin Care - Advanced (ZAS)
Certification Training

Aesthetics and Skin Care - Basic (ZAE)
Certification Training

AMA Certificate in Management (XCM)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Autodesk Certificate (XAO)
Certification Training

Basic Culinary Arts Certificate (XCR)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Business Accounting & Financial Software Certificate (XBA)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Central Sterile Processing Technician Certificate (XSP)
Certification Training

Certified Bookkeeper Certificate (XCB)
Certification Training

Cisco CCNA Discovery Certification Program (XCC)
Certification Training

Community and Medical Interpreting Certificate (XMC)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

CompTIA A+ Certification (XTA)
Certification Training

CompTIA Network+ Certificate (XCT)
Certification Training

CompTIA Security+ Certificate (XAS)
Certification Training

Entrepreneurship Certificate (XEC)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Event Planning Certificate (XEP)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Floral Design Certificate (XFL)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Food Service Director Program Certificate (XFS)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Front Office Essentials (XOE)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Graphic Design Certificate (XGD)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Interior Design Certificate (XID)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Introduction to SolidWorks Certificate (XSW)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Landscape & Garden Maintenance Certificate (XLG)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Landscape Design Certificate Program Certificate (XLD)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

MCITP - Microsoft Certified IT Professional (XCP)
Certification Training

MCSE - Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (XME)
Certification Training

MCTS - Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist (XMA)
Certification Training

Microsoft Office Suite Certificate (XMO)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Nail Technician Certificate (ZNT)
Certification Training

Nurse Assistant/Home Health Aide Certificate (XCN)
Certification Training

Oracle 10g Database Administrator Certificate Program (XOD)
Certification Training

PC & Networking Support Certificate & Certification Prep (XPC)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Pharmacy Technician Certification Program (XPT)
Certification Training

SHRM Essentials of Human Resource Management Certificate Program (XSH)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

SHRM Learning System Certification Program (XSL)
Certification Training

Sustainable Green Building Certificate (XGB)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

Web Design Certificate (XWB)
Non-Credit Certificate of Completion

compmom · September 26, 2011, 7:21am

I would also add opthamology technician, which can involve training on the job. Some medical assistants I know have gone into that field.

Opticians either complete a year’s training or train on the job, and take an exam for licensure.

Real estate sales requires 40 hours of training in my state (up from 24 on 6/1) and an exam for licensure.

EEG and EKG training is still on the job for some, and there is training also available.

Skyhook · September 26, 2011, 8:41am

I find this whole discussion disquieting. What should high schools be doing to respond to this?

Around here, high school students can go to nearby vocational centers or career centers for half-days their junior and senior years. It is a major decision and has significant impacts on that student’s curriculum choices from that point on, because the vocational schools obviously offer different classes than the regular high school. However, it also means that the kids who remain at the high school do not have access to any of the special offerings of the vocational school. In other words, you can’t mix and match course offerings; you’re a vocational kid or a college-prep kid. I think this misses the mark for some of our students but I’m not sure what the answer is.

greenbutton · September 26, 2011, 9:00am

Our public high school has what would traditionally be called vo-tech, but it is physically and curricularly (is that a word?) part of the rest of the school. So college bound students can take a metals class, or a child care class, or a cooking class, or a sys admin class or a C++ class. Student who intend to be “completers” (finish an entire course of study in a interest area) take all courses in their “major” but are free to fit in electives from conventional tracks too. The crossover students are many, and the flow is in both directions. There is something called Learning Enrichment Work Experience Out (LE Out) any student can take for credit; a mentoring/job arranged either by the student or by the school. Our post-graduation reports include those going to college, those in trade schools, and those employed.

MizzBee · September 26, 2011, 9:00am

When I was growing up, we had plenty of vocational options in school, but it was very expensive to run vocational education to keep up with the times. We had carpentry, mechanics and welding. Well, that produced a glut in our area. Mechanics became too expensive when the computer diagnostics came to be. In the area where I currently live several schools combine for vocational education, but we have similar results.
The good union jobs require knowing someone, and getting an apprenticeship for electrician or plumber is very difficult.
Now, to pay for this in the high school area means reducing the AP classes, cutting enrichment courses, etc. and since every parent wants their child to go to college, there is no way that will happen.

Skyhook · September 26, 2011, 9:23am

Greenbutton: I wish our students had the setup you describe. Being able to do a bit of that crossover exploratory stuff might make it easier for students to make a true informed decision about what they want to do post high school. Also, it would enable kids going either the vocational or college route to customize their preparation somewhat.

For example, my college-bound son would have loved to have been able to take some computer programming courses for his required “practical arts” credits instead of the mostly stupid offerings that were available at the regular high school.

GlobalNomad · September 26, 2011, 9:31am

@#54 It is disquieting, Skyhook. I’d even bump it up to alarming! IMO, there are no simple answers to your question: “What should high schools be doing to respond to this?”

If you look around the world to see how countries are educating their “next generation”, you’ll find the gamut from “doing nothing” to “lock-step-age-15-testing” (enter-college, vocational-school, OR a minimum-wage-untrained-job-in-the-service-industry: No Questions Allowed!) to the US’s very liberal hands-off approach.

Each has good points and bad. Each is a viable choice depending on what is perceived to be needed / desired / possible.

Can America as a collective whole agree on its future course? It’s a huge, diverse, unwieldy ship. Godspeed!

mini · September 26, 2011, 10:25am

“Oh, please, if 7% of ‘C’ students get into something, it isn’t ‘more difficult’ to get into than something that admits 8% of ‘A’ students.”

Excuse me, but iin our community college nursing program, it is (or was, when my wife applied) 4%, not 7%. And in the pre-reqs, it is required that, in the 9 COLLEGE pre-req courses, you get at least 8 As, and 1 A-minus. If you receive 2 A-minuses, you can’t get in. Period. Most Ivy students couldn’t hack it. If you went to Yale, and got two A-minuses in the pre-reqs, you will not get in. On the next block from me, there is a Mount Holyoke graduate who graduated magna cum laude with honors in biology. She DIDN’T get in, and had to retake three pre-req classes because her grades were too low. We’ve joked about the reality that it would have been easier for her to get into a good medical school.

(And whether it’s high SAT scores, family money and connections, football prowess, or playing the tuba, none are going to help one get admitted. Some of the rejects go to the four-year program at UWashington.)

MizzBee · September 26, 2011, 10:33am

I agree with mini. Last year the girl who was third in her class did not get into the Purdue nursing school program. She was a straight A student with excellent scores. Her GPA and scores were higher than all the students who got into engineering there. Nursing is VERY competitive.

Pouring Coffee with a B.A.

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