Pre-Med Colleges

College Search & Lists
21

@ThankYouforHelp


[QUOTE=""]
but I still suspect that the person with the 3.5 gpa from Princeton has a very strong chance of getting in to medical school, greater than the student from State U. who may have a higher gpa. I could be wrong, of course.<<<

[/QUOTE]

Tell that to the parent here on CC whose UChicago 3.5 GPA premed got ZERO MD med school interviews last app cycle even though she had a good MCAT and other necessary parts of the app. She applied to many med schools. I don’t remember the exact number but it was between 20-30…a good mix of med schools.

It was shocking as we all were betting that they just needed to be patient…we were all wrong. No invites for interviews therefore no acceptances.

Please don’t argue that UChi isn’t Princeton because if P gets a nudge then certain UChi would.

Law school admissions aren’t anything like med school admissions. For one thing, ALL US MD schools are excellent. No applicant is “too good” for any MD med school. That can’t be said about just any law school.

22

FWIW, there are certainly doctors I’ve listened to who would disagree with this statement. All US med schools produce doctors, but there are med schools that are better than others pending what one is looking for.

YMMV

In a similar manner, one can get into med school from pretty much any undergrad. I’ve even seen it happen from Pensacola and Bob Jones - two schools often loved on CC :wink: , but there are schools with better pre-med advising than others IME. Smaller schools that rarely send anyone to med school don’t tend to be as up on the process as other schools that regularly assist with the process. A knowledgeable student can make either work out ok. They just have to know to do their own research about timing of tests, apps, etc.

And, of course, the path to get there is different. Bio 101 is not the same course at every single college - not even close - easily seen when one compares tests. Some schools go into far more depth than others. Choose according to your wants and needs. Some prefer the “Bio Lite” at various schools and others prefer the in depth of deeper classes. These latter students tend to be bored with Bio Lite. Regardless, one wants/needs a high GPA, so find that fit accordingly. I’ve seen students succeed from both paths, but they enjoy it the best when they’ve found their fit correctly.

23

“Does Fiske label Harvard as being strong in pre-med?” (#16)

Assuming your question is sincere, in the edition I have, it doesn’t. This creates consistency for the rest of your post.

24

<<<
FWIW, there are certainly doctors I’ve listened to who would disagree with this statement. All US med schools produce doctors, but there are med schools that are better than others pending what one is looking for.
<<<

Which US MD schools did they say were mediocre? And were they talking about their own med school or were they just trash-talking med schools that they deemed to be beneath them? If they were talking about their own med school, then WHEN did they attend? If they attended 20+ years ago, then their info is likely old.

If they just mean that a few might be “better” than others, then that’s not an insult to the other schools. X car may be “better” than Y car, but if Y car is also awesome, then that doesn’t mean that Y car is mediocre.

(There are no mediocre US MD med schools…none.)

25

There may be med schools that are better than others but there is no US med school that an applicant would refuse to attend because the training was not worth the cost and effort. Talk to the many US students studying medicine overseas because they received no offers of admission in the US. There are many law schools that are not worth the cost or effort.

26

Excellent point, NMom.

27

Mom2collegekids said: “Tell that to the parent here on CC whose UChicago 3.5 GPA premed got ZERO MD med school interviews last app cycle even though she had a good MCAT and other necessary parts of the app. She applied to many med schools. I don’t remember the exact number but it was between 20-30…a good mix of med schools.”

I’m not trying to be rude, but I’m not that swayed much by individual anecdotes, because I can find one for any argument or situation. Nor am I swayed by what people claim on an anonymous message board. For all we know that kid really had a 2.6 gpa and a 16 on the MCAT and went to DeVry. (I know that was obnoxious, but I’m just saying that I see people say a lot of things on every message board that are exaggerated as hell - the internet is the greatest medium for lying and exaggerating that has ever existed). Even if it is true, it’s just one person.

I also might be biased, because I’m a graduate of the University of Chicago and my anecdotal experience is that I got into multiple top law schools with a lower GPA than the statistics would suggest was even remotely possible, because the admissions officers at those law schools respected the UofC and understood what my UofC GPA actually meant. And my roommate went to a top medical school, and his U of C GPA was not that high either. But that’s just an anecdote too. Extrapolating from it may be just as risky.

Objectively, what I do know for sure is that a much higher percentage of graduates from Princeton and Yale and Stanford and Amherst and Williams (and Chicago) who apply to medical school get into medical school than graduates from state schools. Some say that this is entirely because the students at elite colleges were better students going in to college, but that is an assumption that is very hard to verify objectively. I’m sure it is part of the reason, but I’m not convinced that it is all of the reason. They may also be getting a better education, learning from better peer students, with better professor interaction, and better research opportunities at the undergraduate level, and better support from the college, while not getting “weeded out” by a committee. I just don’t know.

I guess what I am saying is that I’m not sure you are wrong that going to a lower ranked college where you will stand out from the crowd is a surefire better strategy, but I am also not sure you are right. There seems to be a lot of guesswork and “common sense” in the analysis either way. And if there is one thing I have learned over the years, if the question is complicated, common sense turns out to be wrong as often as it is right.

I’d love to read something published by an actual medical school admissions officer about this question.

PS - I could not agree with you more when you say that if you want to go to med schools you absolutely should minimize your undergraduate debt, where ever you choose to go (unless you are a 1 percenter). That point cannot be emphasized enough.

28

“There may be med schools that are better than others but there is no US med school that an applicant would refuse to attend because the training was not worth the cost and effort. Talk to the many US students studying medicine overseas because they received no offers of admission in the US. There are many law schools that are not worth the cost or effort.”

Absolutely 100% true, especially in the current job market.

29

<<<
For all we know that kid really had a 2.6 gpa and a 16 on the MCAT and went to DeVry. (I know that was
<<<

Sorry, but this is a long time poster, and a very honest one. The story is true.

30

“Sorry, but this is a long time poster, and a very honest one. The story is true.”

Even if it is true, it is an anecdote. The plural of anecdote is not data.

I know someone who got accepted by the law schools at Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, and Penn and got waitlisted at Georgetown, which is by far the easiest of the five to get into. Why? Who knows. It’s an anecdote and it doesn’t mean anything vis a vis how had those schools are to get into statistically.

31

I don’t think it’s ironic. I read it as saying the “name” of your school doesn’t magically get you an edge, but the quality of the program, advising, “pre-med” clubs, support for volunteer opportunities, mentoring, etc is a factor to consider.

32

Hmmm. The Amherst excerpt isn’t ironic. What is ironic is that it was being used as an example by posters on this thread of how colleges don’t have “pre-med programs.” Quality academics, strong advising and mentoring, and related off-campus opportunities can, in combination, constitute a loosely defined pre-med program. The Amherst excerpt, beyond its first sentence, makes this clear. This was . . . ironically . . . overlooked.

33

Agree. It doesn’t have a pre-med MAJOR but it does have a pre-med PROGRAM. And IMO there is such a thing.

It also has a pretty detailed web site about pre-med in general that often gets cited on CC :wink:

34

“There may be med schools that are better than others but there is no US med school that an applicant would refuse to attend because the training was not worth the cost and effort.”

–Yes, I think this is true. This is, in part, because med schools are so heavily accredited in the US. Taking it a step further, some applicants may have reservations about some D.O. schools, however, though it is entirely possible to get an outstanding education at many D.O. schools. Our D had a D.O. pediatrician who was phenomenal.

“I’m not sure you are wrong that going to a lower ranked college where you will stand out from the crowd is a surefire better strategy, but I am also not sure you are right.”

–I know someone very well who is on a med school admissions committee. This is anecdotal, TYfH, so take it with a grain of salt. My understanding is that the chief, initial hurdle is for the applicant to get an interview. One’s best chance of getting an interview is to have a great MCAT score and a competitive GPA. One’s undergrad school doesn’t matter so much, whether it’s Penn State, Bowdoin, U of Virginia, or Ursinus. (I imagine this is because Organic Chem is hard wherever you take it, but that’s just my guess.) I think an outstanding personal statement trumps a name undergrad institution just about every time.

Once that hurdle is overcome, they look for students that interview well, who have had a range of research, cultural and/or employment experience, and who show evidence of some maturity and empathy. In other words, candidates who will very likely make great physicians.

35

That’s not a program, those are opportunities. A program is a structured sequence of things that you are ushered through.

Edit:

In fact, at this point, going to DO school is far better/safer than going abroad for an MD.

36

I suppose that’s technically true, “program” is a bad way to say it. “Structured opportunities and advising” work?

37

“That’s not a program, those are opportunities.” (#34)

That’s a selective transcription. What I wrote was: “constitute a loosely defined . . . program.”

38

That’s not a loosely defined pre-med program, those are opportunities for pre-med students.

Better?

Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely think that some schools are better than other schools for pre-med students (in fact, I have a very popular thread on the Brown forum on that topic), but I would simply never refer to any of those benefits or opportunities as any sort of “program.”

39

OP should know he/she doesn’t need premed to get into med school. You can major in theater, math, architecture, comp sci and still apply to med school (think Student Doctor Thompson who majored in business).

40

“those are opportunities” (#34)

program n. 4. A system of services, OPPORTUNITIES, or projects, usually designed to meet a social need.

(The American Heritage dictionary.)

Since “usually” does not mean “always,” “or” can refer to only one element in a series, and “opportunities” matches the reasonable consensus of this thread, “pre-med program” stands as even a literally valid description.