Preparing to Apply - Information for H.S. Juniors and Seniors

KatMT · June 8, 2008, 8:05pm

Depending on the school – this is a good question to ask both the Musical Theatre program and the Admissions department. Some schools will accept students who do not meet the general university admissions standards into the theatre program, others will not. For example, I believe at Carnegie Mellon the audition is 90% and the academics 10%… NYU is 50%/ 50 %, I believe. Sooze would be better able to answer that.

I teach in a BA Musical Theatre program where the average GPA for admittance is 3.6 in academic core courses (With a rigorous load – AP, IB, Honors, Dual Enrollment). Students must be admitted to both the university and the MT concentration to declare the MT concentration (although students admitted to the university academically can come in another concentration [including theatre]). We will recommend students who audition for the MT Concentration in whom we are interested in having in the Concentration for admission to the university if they have at least a 3.0 in core academic courses with a rigorous course load. We will not recommend students below that GPA to admissions regardless of how much we may like them in the audition. We only will recommend 16 students to admissions for Musical Theatre per year.

We are a BA program, but there are BFA programs that work similarly, so I offer this as an example of one school’s process. Most schools will let you know their process if you ask.

Best of luck! :)

Kat

uskoolfish · June 8, 2008, 8:37pm

We found it most valuable to look more at rank (actually top 10% or 5%) as a benchmark as to whether D was in the academic range for a school. When D actually compiled her list of schools, she found that while all looked at rank, none of the 8 schools she applied to calculated grades and GPA the same. Some re-calculated (without weight) only the core academic courses, others recalculated and used all of the courses, some used weighted averages but only for core courses, some looked at everything weighted, some recalculated our numeric scale into a 4.0 scale, others didn’t bother. It was next to impossible to keep track of. Often schools will also look at weighted and unweighted averages to calculate the difference between the two to try to ascertain the difficulty of the students course load. Most college guides will tell you the average acceptances by rank. It was the easiest factor to deal with.

keepingcalm · June 9, 2008, 2:32pm

THanks again. She is actually pretty solid fr admission for schools she is interested, but at the schools we have visited or looked up webistes for there are some pretty consistents about scholarhsop money. We have talked with her about staying in the top 10% of her class, which the school calculates on her overall weighted GPA (good thing for her!) but then a lot have cut-off GPAs. But as many have said, it is a college by college decision, so we will keep working on staying in the top 10% which should give her a relatively competitive GPA also.

Maryhelen · June 19, 2008, 9:34am

Hi everyone,
I’m relatively new to this site, but I enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts/discussions. My son will be applying this year, and I’m feeling overwhelmed. Although he has done a lot with his talent this past year (leads/parts in 2 shows and is now in a summer show; also state chorus, weekly voice lesson) I’m doing all the research part. I can’t get him interested in scheduling summer visits, or even looking for a monologue at the book store. I think maybe he’s nervous, but so am I! Any suggestions?
Also, I see very little posted about tuition concerns. My other 2 children are getting through college strictly on loans, but their majors are a little less “iffy” as far as their future is concerned. I know of a “very few” scholarships available in MT, but what if he doesn’t get any?
Any thoughts/comments would be most welcome. Thanks.

letsfigureitout · June 19, 2008, 10:00am

I’m sure you’ll get a lot of replies to your post, Maryhelen. If your S is going to apply for MT, he’ll need to get work done this summer. Visiting college campuses might not be as productive now as in the Fall, once school starts again, as he should visit when students are there. But, at least, you guys should develop a list of potential schools. You might start by taking a trip to one or two campuses that are nearby and chatting with faculty there if that is possible. And, get going on a schedule for a visit or two in the Fall. You can visit some programs when he auditions, but it would be good to get a few done earlier, if only to know what to look for later on.

If your S doesn’t start finding songs and monologues now, and learning them, he’s going to have too much to deal with in the Fall. He can also start working on his admission essays! Help him set up a schedule to get these things done, and put into place some contingencies. In some cases, schools will not allow you to schedule your audition until the application is in. Thus, it helps to have the applications done EARLY if you are interested in getting your choice of audition dates.

As far as scholarships go, our experience was that there was some money available, at some programs. You can probably do some research on that right now. Academic scholarships are often the biggest piece, and they’re based on grades and SAT scores. I am sure many MT students go to school with loans. Yes, it’s and “iffy” profession, but so are most now-a-days. These kids will learn many skills in their BFA programs that will help them in whatever they end up doing!

NotMamaRose · June 19, 2008, 11:33am

Welcome, Maryhelen. I agree with letsfigureitout that it behooves your son to at least get started on some elements of his whole college admissions process now, when things are less stressed and he has less on his plate. One thing he can do is to research the audition requirements at the schools for which he plans to audition and have his voice teacher work with him to begin selecting audition songs and working on them. This way, if he is not motivated to select monologues, he will at least have the music portion in place (or almost in place) by the time fall comes. (You are probably aware that some schools require kids to sing songs written before 1960, etc. So he may need four or five songs in order to satisfy a variety of schools.) Best of luck!

ttmom · June 19, 2008, 12:40pm

Maryhelen,
It might be worthwhile to have your son contact the theater teacher at his high school or a college professor to get some monologue help. Also consider hiring a vocal coach and or monologue coach in your area or one that could be available over skype. And I agree with letsfigureitout and NMR to get those college apps out of the way now, including all the essays. Fall will be here before you know it and the sooner you map out your travel schedule and air fares and such and audition dates the better, especially with the price of oil!! Look into Unifeids as well. Good Luck!!!

Maryhelen · June 20, 2008, 7:47pm

Thanks for the responses. I can see where I’m just going to have to be a little more tough on him.

MichaelNKat · June 20, 2008, 11:12pm

Something that may help is to put together a timeline that shows the due dates for all of the components of his applications, audition start and end dates and all of his normal extra-curricular activities and the dates they hit. Make a list of all the tasks that need to be accomplished. Then sit down with him and talk about the time requirements and what his thoughts are on how he should organize the time needed to accomplish all his tasks given all the time constraints and other commitments he will have. Seeing the reality of it all on paper may help him realize the need to start to focus. Try to make it an interactive dialogue rather than lecturing him. What I found was that if I pushed, my kids pushed back. If had an interactive conversation, then they felt that they were controlling their lives and were more receptive to my guidance.

Maryhelen · June 22, 2008, 10:47am

Thanks - great idea on the timeline.

MichaelNKat · June 27, 2008, 8:48pm

There have recently been a couple of threads dealing with various topics and issues concerning “cut policies and procedures” and “juries, Boards and evals” at BFA programs. It is critically important when applying to schools that you understand whether a school has a “cut policy” and the role juries play in student evaluations and retention. I urge everyone who is applying to an audition based program to take the time to read these threads and become better informed about the issue. Make sure you ask all the right questions at any school you are considering so that you fully understand the approach and philosophy of the school. This is an area in which you want to avoid surprises 1 year and $50,000 later.

Threads to look at:

Final Decisions and Thoughts on “Cuts and Juries”

Cuts from CCM - Transfer Questions

KatiesDad · August 11, 2008, 7:04pm

Well, CMU Precollege is over, and now it’s time to get moving on the App Process. D had an excellent experience this summer. Loved all her classes, teachers, (especially the CMU seniors helping out..) and made lots of friends both in MT and the other various programs. Still waiting to get the final audition reports, but she said she had good verbal feedback from her auditioners. One nice thing is that she has all her songs and monologues chosen and practiced, and can spend the fall working on polishing any details, and working through any comments/criticisms she gets from her final auditions from CMU Pre-C.

she’s been too busy at CMU up until now to start narrowing down the list of schools to fit the reach/match/safety criterion… The working list which needs to be cut down MAJORLY is as follows (thanks to all for the previous feedback on BA programs and safety schools) She/we have our work cut out for us..lol:

BFA Musical Theatre Schools Website

BA Theatre Schools (non-Audition) Website

I’m guessing that this thread will be picking up quite a bit going into Fall…

soozievt · August 11, 2008, 7:28pm

KatiesDad, glad to hear your D had a very fruitful experience at CMU Pre-College. And yes, indeed, her list is VERY long and needs trimming in a big way but you know that.

Just a few comments…

Under BFA in MT…

You have Northwestern and that is a BA school in Theater (no audition) with a MT Certificate program by audition after the first year.

Baldwin-Wallace, NYU/Steinhardt, and OCU are BM degree programs.

Under “BA in MT”…“No Audition”

You have some schools that DO have an audition even though they are a BA program such as: American

Also, you have many schools that are a BA but the BA itself is not IN musical theater, such as: Bard, BC, Brandeis, Conn College, Dickinson, Drew, Goucher, Hofstra, Kenyon, McDaniel, Muhlenberg (though could piece togehter a MT type program), Sarah Lawrence, Skidmore, Susquehanna, Tufts, Wheaton.
[not saying these are not great options but they don’t fall under the heading]

I would separate the BA in MT schools from the BA in Theater schools and also the ones that have an audition.

By the way, Hofstra has a BFA in Acting that you can audition for after two years.

KatiesDad · August 11, 2008, 7:42pm

Yes, thanks soozie, I know my two classifications weren’t exactly correct, but those were just the sections I titled it when I set up my excel file, before I actually filled in all the schools. (I knew I’d get some corrections..lol) It definitely needs further refinement in that regard.

She has a pretty good idea of the BFA/BM programs that she’d love to go to, but I think she still has a lot of reading/looking to do in regard to the BA/non-audition programs. I want her to read up as much as possible for the next two weeks, to have a realistic working list of about 10-12 schools total, by the time school starts on 8/25. Although that list looks long, she has spent the last six weeks talking to other students (including the CMU seniors), professors, and her regular voice teacher (also CMU faculty) in getting a good idea of where her talents would give her a realistic chance. I can certainly help her with the grades/SAT filter process, but I certainly defer to the opinions and suggestions of her teachers in this profession, regarding her talent level.

soozievt · August 12, 2008, 2:16am

KatiesDad,
The plan in place for the next steps of your D’s process sound perfect.

theatredivasmom · August 22, 2008, 11:40am

Hi Everybody,

I used this website extensively when my oldest daughter was applying for MT/Drama programs. She ended up attending Tisch, chose not to go the MT route, although she auditioned accidentally (long story) for MT and then asked to be placed in The Lee Strasberg Studio, and ultimate was, through Tisch’s program. Anyhow, she graduated this past spring and is working in NYC, loving every minute of it.

Now we have another daughter, our youngest, who has the same gifts, and is wanting to attend a MT program. The difference in our two girls is that my youngest daughter was diagnosed with dyslexia when she was 8-years-old. It has definitively had an impact on her academics, although she has managed to maintain average grades; however, we feel strongly, as her parents, that the proper placement for her is in a true conservatory-based program. Can anyone on the board help with the following:

<pre><code> 1)A list of the top conservatory-based programs in the country

   2)Those which are audition-based, as opposed to academic based

   3)Recommendations with regard to specific schools

</code></pre>

Both my husband and I feel that we should begin looking at schools now, although our daughter is only a sophomore in high school. As we live in a state university town, she takes voice and dance from university professors/instructors. Our university, WIU, also has begun a MT program, which may be a viable option for her, but we feel it is better for her if she goes on to college/conservatory in a different community. This past summer our D attended U of I’s musical theatre summer program and did very well. Next year we are hoping to send her to NYC to participate in one of the many MT/drama summer opportunities.

Any experiences or suggestions you can share would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Theatredivasmom (Kristin)

letsfigureitout · August 22, 2008, 2:09pm

We have just been through this with my son, who is going to a BFA program in acting, not MT. He, too, was diagnosed early with a learning disability, and struggled with academics. His grades have always been quite competitive, as he worked very hard and got help to learn the material in ways that suited his learning style. However, assessment, particularly standardized testing has always been an issue; thus, his SATs were not anywhere the level of his grades. I understand your interest in finding programs that do not look closely at the “academic” stats to determine acceptance.

Many programs list right on their website whether they look at the academic portion of the application package, and note the weight given to that sort of thing. Of the schools we seriously considered (that also offered MT), it seemed that CMU, CCM, Point Park, and Otterbein either did not factor in academic stats heavily or did not have standards so high that many students would be excluded right off the bat.

theatredivasmom · August 22, 2008, 3:07pm

Thanks for the input. I talked with SUNY-Purchase today and added them to our list. My daughter has the most difficulty, also, with standardized testing. We are working on certain things that will assist her in test-taking situations, but still believe she will truly thrive in a conservatory-based program. I am very impressed that CMU is one of those programs that may be a possibility for her. My oldest daughter was a Cherub at Northwestern’s summer program, but CMU had a summer program that we heavily considered for her. I will definitely keep it on the list.

Thanks

Kristin

letsfigureitout · August 22, 2008, 4:10pm

I don’t think MT is an option at SUNY Purchase, which is why I did not list it for you.

The test taking IS important for scholarship considerations. While you can get IN the programs that don’t look specifically at academics, the scholarship money available IS often for academics. I wish we had been more forceful in pushing our son to prepare more for those dreaded SATs.

CMU’s summer program is great for preparation for college auditions. My son did it the summer before his senior year. It is talked about a lot on the CMU thread. CMU really doesn’t consider the academic part of the application much at all. . .they say 80% audition-20% academics or 90%-10%, depending on the source. However, we know an admissions staff member there and, really, if the drama or MT folks want a student, and that student is at least minimally capable, they will get an offer.

200919MOM · August 22, 2008, 4:45pm

It is so nice to know we are on the right track! My D has chosen 7 schools for MT with one BA no audtion but has MT track. Visited 4 have 3 more to visit but she is looking for the right songs. Question is Astonising from Little Women an Uptempo song? D is second soprano and love this song but her Vocal Coach thinks it is ballad. If anyone know I would like to pass it on to my D.

Greatfull
Mom

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