<p>…There’s still no reason why student need to use calculators, or to memorize log tables. What’s wrong with the answer being “log(3)”, instead of a memorized decimal?</p>
<p>because if it were to be left as log 3, then the iit adcoms would have many more people with right/qualifying answers and would have a tough time deciding the difference (especially since the test is the only factor).</p>
<p>AsiaKnight - I have a full set of IIT Gate Prep books, your standard Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, all bought this summer from the bookstore in India, and I can assure you that that content is on AP level. There maybe some things that aren’t covered on either side, but the material is on AP level.</p>
<p>And if that doesn’t satisfy you, what about the AIME, where you don’t have a calculator?</p>
<p>Oh, and if the Indian board of education contracted a company to make calculators that are specifically designed for the exam, </p>
<p>A) They could be mass produced
B) Everyone has the same calculator
C) It isn’t that expensive
D) Just give it to students, and have them give collateral and they get it back at the end.</p>
<p>Trancestorm: So you would measure determination by ones abilities to memorize log and trig tables? That would imply that everyone has the ability to memorize vast quantities of material.</p>
<p>Oh, and talking about how calculators produce unfair advantage over others, you can’t deny that a vast number of those applying to IIT and AIMS(Med school I believe, sp?) get coaching. How the hell can you expect a boy in a village to compete against those being trained by professional coaches day and night?</p>
<p>If the tests need to be made harder, they should be made so as to judge problem solving ability, not memorizational ability. A test with questions of difficulty comparable to the AIME (or even the USAMO, if necessary), would do just as well to single out the best of the best.</p>
<p>Some people are smart by nature, I know atleast a couple of them who without any coaching got into some of the best Engineering colleges in India. (BITS etc)</p>
<p>And sagar, the IIT JEE exam is way more difficult than the AP’s. AP chem is a JOKE compared to the amount of organic and inorganic chem that we have to study for the IIT JEE. </p>
<p>Physics is more on the level of the qualifying round for the USA Physics team. And the math is more or less like the AIME but with the addition of calculus. And let me assure you that the questions are hard and much higher than the AP level.</p>
<p>
You dont have to memorise log tables or trig tables, you’re given a log book - use it. </p>
<p>Oh yeah and btw the IIT JEE doesn’t have a biology section.</p>
<p>
It IS based on problem solving (atleast most of it). The tests do not require the students to memorise loads of stuff (obviously you need to know the laws and the equations etc).</p>
<p>Its like any standardised test, the more you practice the better you get to know the test and the higher you score. Many people associate this high level of practicing as memorising. Obviously there are some who do memorise but I can assure you that very few of them make it to the IIT’s by rote learning.</p>
<p>Do you have to memorize decimal values for trig tables? That assumption is what most of the above posts were based on. Actually, I can understand memorizing 1.732 for sqrt(3) - as in 30-60-90, and 1.414 for sqrt(2) - as in 45-45-90.</p>
<p>But having to memorize sin(5) would be pretty worthless.</p>
<p>sagar, please don’t use gay in a derogatory manner.</p>
<p>“That is so gay.”</p>
<p>soliloquy, please do not fault sagar for being a homophobe. Or are you partial against homophobes? You are a homophobephobe! Damn racists.</p>
<p>Still, all of my cousins have memorized a vast majority of those tables, so they don’t have to waste time looking them up.</p>
<p>My assessment of the AP and IIT-JEE exams comes from my dad. He now adds that things may have changed since he went through everything, but that accross the board, if you average out the difficulties of all subjects available, they are about even.</p>
<p>You don’t have to study all subjects after 10th. If kids here in the US were allowed to do that, you would see AP Differential Equations and AP Linear Algebra easy. The level of difficulty would obviously increase, and I believe it would be directly equivalent to the IIT JEE. But in the USA, we have to consider tons of other subjects, along with EC’s, etc. It all depends on the depth you study your field.</p>
<p>I’m just expressing my opinion, which is obviously biased, given that my parents are Indian, I’ve gone to India numerous times and seen the education system, and I live in the USA. I’m not doubting the abilities of Desi’s(I was born there), but I’m questioning how effective the system of entrance for IIT and other educational institutes is. US entrance systems aren’t perfect either. Many people cheat their way through. But the underlying idea is that everyone should have a shot.</p>
<p>Bottom line: I believe that ability cannot be measured in one sitting. By the time you are 16, most people aren’t ready to decide what field they want to continue for the rest of their life. Potential should be measured across your high school career. I know this is infeasable given the circumstances.</p>
<p>Oh, and I’ve talked to plenty of people from IIT in my surrounding neighborhoods. I know what they do for a living, and a vast majority of them got an education here in the States in a subject that they liked rather than the one they were assigned when they went to IIT. I’ve also talked to IIT profs(in person), and they also reiterated their frustrations with the entrance exams, etc.</p>
<p>Lastly, I am sorry for using the word “gay.” At school, and around friends, it isn’t associated with sexual orientation, but rather distaste. I am sorry, and won’t use it again.</p>
<p>
Nope we don’t have to know sin 5 etc. The ones we need to know (which are also pretty obvious from the graphs) are 30,45,60,90 and their mulitples.</p>
<p>
NO WAY!!!
The subjects in the IIT JEE test are Physics, Chem and Math. All of them are much more difficult than the AP’s. Infact even my high school curriculum (CBSE) is much more demanding than the AP’s. </p>
<p>
The ‘tons of other subjects’ are your choice. You can very well take 5 AP’s in a year and fulfill your high school requirements. And yes people here also do have EC’s here too.</p>
<p>I’m aware of the fact that the selection process is far from perfect. but its probably the fairest method available given the population of the country and the available resources.</p>
<p>Fact is, a good percentage of MIT students would clean up on foreign entrance exams. But many wouldn’t; still, I’d take MIT students wouldn’t get into IIT (probably a lot of them) in a heartbeat of IIT students that wouldn’t get into MIT (more of them than you Indian nationalists think).</p>
<p>My point is that the entrance exams is not a great solution, and it should only be a temporary solution. Why doesn’t an infrastructure of like-minded IIT-alums get together and volunteer to read essays and interview students? I could ask the same question of China, Taiwan, and Europe. To what extent does the government control the process? Do the governments in these places really believe they have a better model, or are they just looking for the cheaper answer?</p>
<p>Of course, one difference is that MIT is a private institution. It has a large endowment, and it’s budget is self sustaining due to the entrepreneurial nature of the area and the school (they take in so much money that they could not charge tuition at all and still be in the black).</p>
<p>“a good percentage of MIT students would clean up on foreign entrance exams”
I dunno. Maybe 1-2% at most would “clean up” the Chinese exams. Unless you are in the math/physics/bio olympiads and have really good knowledge of history and geography. No offense at all to applicant pools in the U.S. (many of you which can school me for sure), but they don’t really compare to those in more educated Asian countries. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t like their system either…</p>
<p>Another problem is that China has about the same number of Universities (I think) that the U.S. has, but 5x the applicant pool. Could you imagine how much time and money that would take?</p>
<p>River Phoenix: Lets be fair. If you haven’t specifically studied for IIT JEE for a few months, you won’t be cleaning anything up. </p>
<p>I too would take an MIT student over an IIT student. I think that MIT students would have more knowledge from other fields(like public speaking, foreign languages, literature), practical experince, and more research, as well as more personality depth.</p>
<p>“Why doesn’t an infrastructure of like-minded IIT-alums get together and volunteer to read essays and interview students?”</p>
<p>You must be joking. Sadly, a vast majority of Indians care only of themselves. No offense to anyone, just an observation I have made. Besides, they would say, why shouldn’t they go through the fire like we did.</p>
<p>The system won’t change until the average student can afford a calculator.</p>
<p>PS: Oh, and if nobody noticed, India has a surplus of a couple billion US dollars. Of course considering that by the time the money gets down to the grass roots level, you are only left with a few dollars, you can see the circumstances.(corruption)</p>
<p>Hello: I’m not just counting IIT JEE, but other subjects such as English, Hindi, French, History, etc. I would be surprised if MIT students didn’t have at least one non-math science AP under them.</p>
<p>Many students do have other subjects like English, French, Computer Science, Biology, History & Economics to worry about. The IIT-JEE is an independent examination, we also have our high school curriculum to tend to.</p>
<p>
That is a good suggestion, but its not practical since most IIT alums live outside India and the volume of applicants is simply overwhelming.
Speak for yourself.</p>
<p>And the country has to have its priorities right. Ahh lets see, food, water and electricity or Calculators?</p>
<p>
I agree.</p>
<p>hello, if the Indian people took the time apart to try and fix problems like regular power outages, un-clean drinking water, less litter on the streets, a decrease in population, etc. Saying that a vast majority of Indians care about themselves is not an insult. Its a result of the daily stresses. If I was there, I would be caring mainly about myself. Like you said, people are dealing with insane competition, along with food, water, and electricity. </p>
<p>Why does India have such a big surplus, and yet not spend it on feeding its people, coming up with solutions to fix the water pipes(admittedly very very difficult), and create new power plants?</p>
<p>With estimated $600 billion in surplus, we need to construct better solutions. </p>
<p>Oh, and could you explain to me why 99% of the internet cafe’s of computer stores I went to in India sell/use pirated software?</p>
<p>because people don’t have high speed internet access and hence are unable to use p2p to their advantage :p</p>
<p>"Trancestorm: So you would measure determination by ones abilities to memorize log and trig tables? That would imply that everyone has the ability to memorize vast quantities of material. "</p>
<p>There have to be at least 1000 superqualified iit people who are able to memorize the tables…Call it a measure to test how they adapt. Natural selection :-D</p>
<p>“How the hell can you expect a boy in a village to compete against those being trained by professional coaches day and night?”</p>
<p>You cant, but how can it be IIT’s or india’s prerogative to equalize preparation resources? Some people are born rich and will always have an advantage…This cannot be helped.</p>