<p>While doing the university search “thing” we were all concerned club would not be of a desireable quality level. I think this would really depend on the school & the sport…I am not hearing any stories of those kids in HS who are only there to socialise and are always goofing off, I am hearing about real athletes, who generally played varsity sports, but want to have a different experience that Div I varsity. So, if you have a HS student-athlete, check out the club scene, too, it may be the perfect compromise, but NO scholarship $$$ are available. Many of the student-athletes I know at varsity level also do not have scholarships or only have partials!</p>
<p>Interesting thread.
I just want to also make the point that frequently, but not always, there are few seniors on a college team. By senior year I have heard of many a student athlete, in our case tennis, who have given up the college team. I have spoken personally with some of these kids and reasons for leaving the team range from injuries, like a colapsed lung or being injured in practice, to the fact they just don’t want to miss any more classes in their major or have too many demands of internship.</p>
<p>The point is, although one may be a devoted player for a team freshman year, maturing and refinement of one’s goals do occur.A student athlete should not feel the responsibility of the commitment forever or for all four years.All the kids I spoke to who had quit their college sport, and most of these kids had partial athletic scholarships, did not regret quiting and quiting did not stop them from either ejoying their sport or even using it as a career in their adult life. I found them sensible about the choices they made.</p>
<p>DD, is a D1 athlete, her sport starts in August (practice), meets start in November, nationals in feb/march, practice continues for summer nationals.<br>
She has practice from 6-8:30 am daily, 2-5pm and weights for an hour, daily. She is an arch major, latin minor and is on the executive board for the residential housing authority, so she has had to fit in 2 conventions several states away. The team travels quite a bit and has training in several locations. She has winter training in florida. She is on an academic scholarship with a couple of extra scholarship funds for other things.</p>
<p>She loves every minute of it. I think she is nuts. Not my idea of fun college years, but it is hers. Which I guess is the point. She is a freshman so last year she did turn down an ivy where she was recruited and ended up at a huge school with a coach she had only spoken of in whispered terms of awe. Never thought she would on HIS team, which is now HER team.</p>
<p>Although the support given to her at her school is unbelievable. Tutors, advisors…</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>It certainly is a juggle of time to do all this so one must really have a deep passion to do it. I feel quite certain that my daughter WILL be staying on her varsity team all four years. A criteria in her selection of colleges was that the college have a club or varsity team in her favorite sport (though she played three varsity sports in high school, but one is a very strong lifelong passion, though the other two were lifelong and loved). She cared about this before she got there and she really does now as well. She was never recruited so that whole “getting in as an athlete” discussion does not apply in her case. She particularly likes that at this school, her favorite sport is on the varsity level but was willing to go to a college that had it on a club level. </p>
<p>This fall, for the first two months, she was not only practicing daily with her team (it is off season but they had two early morning and five late afternoon practices (called dryland training) each week but she ALSO had practices and games for the club soccer team she was ALSO on and a couple days per week, she went from two hour practices for one team to a two hour practice for the other! If she could have, she would have been in the tap dance troupe too but they only accepted one new Brown female student from the audition. She has always thrived on being engaged in her activities but also is a VERY hard working academic student.</p>
<p>Next semester, after a full time three week training camp in January, off site with the team, she’ll have to be gone two full mornings per week and then leave every Friday at 4 PM and back Sunday nights, away all weekend. As I said, she likely will ALSO miss a full week of classes as she did last year for Nationals. She had to get the work in advance last time from professors. This time, she had to get permission of the dept. head at RISD for a six hour architecture course she takes on Friday afternoons until 6 (though RISD luckily starts later in the semester so she has this conflict for only three weeks. Her coursework is demanding at an Ivy school but even with this, she manages to get As so she handles it and is having a great time. </p>
<p>Socially, it is not a scenario where all her friends are on the team. She has many different sets of friends. Her roomie of two years is not on the team. She has many friends that have nothing to do with the team with whom she does things with socially. She also is close to the team and sometimes does social things. In winter, she will be spending three full weeks just with the team, and then every weekend so that is definitely one social set of friends. The boys team is a club level team but they also do all the same training and all the same trips and races, just not Nationals (they are not nearly as good as the girls team). It is not work to my daughter. It is a huge passion. As it is, she used to do this sport six days per week before and now will only be doing it four days a week in winter (not counting training camp, etc.). It’ll be hard to do all her work, particularly when one course is hands on and architecture is super time consuming but she can take readings and a laptop with her on trips. She has had MORE social time at college than she ever had in high school and for that, I am glad. She fits it all in. </p>
<p>While it is not for everyone, for some this is a major passion in their lives. My D was thrilled to be on the team and particularly thrilled to make regionals and Nationals because most of her team had gone to specialized academies for this for high school and she was not in that “track” but rather went to public school. I think when my D gets to grad school, she’s going to miss being able to be on a team! She has done this sport since she could literally walk. It is part of her life and while it makes for huge demands in college, she’d never give it up. She has always been a well rounded type person and always wanted a foot in more than one thing. Just doing academics just is not her. She does academics to the highest standards (she puts high expectations on herself) but loves her activities as well. Her plans to study abroad are even worked around her sport. She would only consider fall abroad programs because she would NOT consider not doing her sport which competes in winter for a major part of second semester. Somehow, she is managing to fit it all in. However, she does not have races or games during finals (that would suck). Her schedule of exams, papers, and projects due every single day right now is mind boggling enough to me. I keep telling her however, that while she is working round the clock now during this final stuff, she has five weeks off and can look forward to training camp with NO schoolwork. It will be like a super duper vacation. It is something she absolutely loves and will get to do it full time. Last year when she had the training camp she improved so much and loved it and had never in her life been able to do that full time. So, hopefully as she is burning the candle at both ends this week and next, she can have dreams in her head of the fun of her sport immersion real soon. By the way, she also was playing intramural tennis this fall. That is her third sport. While this may seem like an overwhelming schedule, she thrives on it and the balance between hardcore academics and hardcore sport immersion. Hopefully she will not be injured. That has plagued some on her team and I have witnessed it first hand. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Interesting parallels, Susan, my D was also a 3 and 4 sport (when cc could be “extra”) awarded athlete in high school…one of her sports is Varsity at her school, she had competed at very advanced levels and she could have had a chance to play it at her school, but the club sport is her passion- she has played for the USA in international competition…and the boy’s team is varsity & generally the best in the US at her school…big difference in the programs, the money, the facilities, etc. Varsity at a Pac 10 school is a serious commitment.</p>
<p>One of the reasons why club is great for my D, and may be great for some other kids: She had a repetitive motion injury a couple of years ago and has had to baby herself at times…maybe not doing all the drills, etc., to avoid causing a tendonitis type injury to flare up…she took 8 months off when it happened, got better enough to play, and was not prepared to miss her high school varsity sports, but I honestly don’t know if a true varsity program would allow her to be cautious, when need be.</p>
<p>Her coaches are very understanding and want to help her be healthy enough to play. In my imagination, a varsity coach might not want to mess with some one like that…like a delicate race horse! So, if a student-athlete has any injury issues, a club program might be beneficial.</p>
<p>MY d’s sport is NCAA emerging, so it is only varsity at a few schools right now (she was recruited by those schools) so, for her this seems like a great balance. I am not sure how having both varsity & club in the same sport affects a program, but it would be worth consideration!</p>
<p>I will definitely know more after competition season, regionals, nationals, etc., in the spring!</p>
<p>well a lot really depends on the sport; my nephew just graduated from an ivy and played football.</p>
<p>Football players tend to stay on for 4 years, it’s usually an injury that forces them to quit (I checked his roster…exactly 25% are seniors). I believe at the ivy level, one reason they stay on is they form a separate clique quite apart from the rest of the school. They don’t quite understand the rest of the kids and vice versa. In N’s experience at least for football, they live, go to class, and socialize together. This may be entirely different for other sports with fewer participants. As galwaymom said which is so true, you don’t want to trumpet the fact that you play (very true for football) to your professor, even though your appearance gives you away.</p>
<p>Also, with all the pressure, and it is considerable at the I-AA level (practice, travel, weight training, hours of watching film…even practices are filmed and critiqued, this is at an ivy, not just Ohio State), how do they keep up? For some sports like football, basketball, etc (high profile) they don’t. They graduate and often do fine in life…outgoing personalities, teamwork,etc but generally the grades are lower than the average. I don’t believe this is true for other less high profile sports like tennis, golf, crew etc.</p>
<p>I try to keep this kind of rationalization in context…try this…what about all the high school kids who drop off their teams, for most if not all of the same reasons? From the perspective of the perents of hgh schoolers who are athletically-inclined but see a compelling need to drop off their teams, there may be very little difference from what your D is facing.</p>
<p>They and their families go through a very similar, if not the same, kind of angst as mentioned by all these thoughtful folks who experience…vicariously…their progeny’s desire to try and balance athletics with academics.</p>
<p>Frankly, that’s part of the growth they ALL go thru. At some point…some have to deal with it in an athletic mode; others in an academic mode; some in high school, some in college; some later on when they get cut from pro or semi-pro teams…or don’t get in to a Top Ten B-School or Law School.</p>
<p>It’s called life. With regard to proudtobeherdad…</p>
<p>(“They will tell you that the pressure doesn’t start until after you have been
accepted, are enrolled & are competing at the intercollegiate level.”)…</p>
<p>I guess she should have checked and <em>studied</em> the schedule from the prior several seasons, and asked others on the SWAT team she was considering about the course load…or perhaps YOU should have, since you are voicing this…if she got into SWAT, she already had an inquiring mind, after all…and in case you wonder, I absolutely admire her skills on the academic and athletic fronts.</p>
<p>Many of us are “proudtobeher/hisdad.” Let’s get on with it. They are resilient! It seems to me like she will come out of this better than you will!</p>
<p>Written with my flak jacket secured…8^)</p>
<p>I did not view the OP as anything other than a parent sharing some insight with those of us whose children are contemplating or already committed to similar adventures. If I’m planning a trip to NYC and somebody offers up some warnings on which bridges to avoid at what times of day, I don’t feel inclined to remind that person that traffic is a fact of life and everyone has to deal with it we should have researched NYC bridge traffic patterns before buying the airline ticket! LOL. 
</p>
<p>As a parent of a future DIII athlete with some high academic goals as well as a taste for painting her toenails while talking on her cell phone, IM’ing her friends, and writing a paper all at the same time, I’m all ears and very appreciative of stories from the trenches!</p>
<p>Our lacrosse association sponsors a breakfast every February where alumni and local college coaches talk about lacrosse and college and addmissions and scholarships and balance.</p>
<p>One point is that most college students try to balance academics and social life. Athletes add a third dimension and it’s generally considered that you can spend a lot of time on two of the above but not three and that balance is crucial. </p>
<p>Also – when doing unofficial visits and asking lots of questions of coaches a few things stand out. One is living situations. Notre Dame assigns athletes to dorms throughout campus – there is no football dorm for example. Cornell houses the lacrosse freshman in two housing units on North Campus.</p>
<p>“While doing the university search “thing” we were all concerned club would not be of a desireable quality level.”</p>
<p>We were very surprised to hear about how qualified the players who participate in club sports at S’s D-1 school really are. For example, they had over 100 kids try out for the club team that he participated on this year. Many of these players were state and nationally recognized athletes, who are at this particular school because of the academics, but still want to compete in athletics without the full comittment that it takes to play at the varsity level. Many (including S) actually had scholarship opportunities at other schools. The practices are not as intense, and the travel is generally limited to day trips, with the exception of some of the end of the season tournaments. It seems like a good compromise at some schools for the true scholar athletes who will definitely be “competing professionally in something other than their sport”.</p>
<p>Been there…Done that. 35 years ago.</p>
<p>Having experienced the stress of a student-athlete
at an academically challenging college, I had & continue
to inform My D what she should expect relative to
academic, EC, athletic & social life pressures & their
positive experiences.</p>
<p>Please be informed that I as parent, am not complaining about
the pressures experienced by these student-athletes. As a matter
of fact, I would suggest that all students should experience that
aspect of college life. Sure , it is tough & very demanding, but
the memories are unforgetable. If a student can handle
the academic pressures and participate in a college sport, AND most of all, be happy with themselves, the experience is invaluable.</p>
<p>
I guess this is possible in some cases, but it completely conflicts with my own experience. In my own HS days, I never heard of anyone dropping a sport for academic reasons. In fact, our top students were always also top athletes. In my own class, back in the early 70s, the top three students academically were also very superior three-sport varsity athletes who went on to Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford. The people I remember dropping sports didn’t like the physical demands and/or just weren’t very good.</p>
<p>In my daughter’s very demanding prep HS, the phys ed requirement must be met by either two seasons on athletic teams, or by a year-long standard phys ed class. Almost no one opts for the class, and the school has no problem sending most of these two-sport scholar-athletes off to top schools. Once they get there, however, many report the same difficulties as posted by p2bhd, and I don’t think his OP was a whiny gripe session, as palidad implied. Many of these students, like my daughter, do end up dropping their college sports after a year or two, due to a combination of social, academic–and even burnout reasons. The reality is that the demands of college athletics are significantly greater than anything that either I or my daughter experienced in HS, and I think the OP was useful in pointing that out.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Gotta write that one down or Ill forget [note to self: file under, could be worse]. :)</p>
<p>Following up on 1sokkermom, I totally agree that often club teams are very competitive and are made up of kids who competed at a high level in high school and for whatever reason, are not playing varsity in college. My D was content to do her favorite sport as a club team at 6 of the 8 schools on her list that did not have this sport as a varsity team because the main thing for HER, was that she did not want to give up the sport. She explored those club teams and met with the captains on each of our college visits and learned that SOME on the team were quite good and competitive and others were more like a hobby sort of thing. She knew that while it would NOT be like a varsity team where everyone was competitive, there were enough kids on the team who were and it satisfied her just fine. However, when she learned she could play on a varsity team it appealed to her more but was not a make or break deal in her selecting a school. Besides her varsity team in one sport, she now plays on the club soccer team and many on it have played competitively their whole lives but just are not of the varsity recruit level (not necessarily much lower, however). This team is just fine for her and they travel some and practice some but the commitment is not as huge as her varsity team one. I second the notion that club sports are competitive and a great option. </p>
<p>I’ll make an interesting observation that I learned this year. Her club soccer team, when it came time for Regional Championships, she was NOT allowed to compete with the team (and she was one of only two goalies on this team) because of a rule that varsity athletes cannot compete in club sport championships/regional events. I found that a bit odd because while I can see that a varsity soccer player should NOT be allowed to compete on the club soccer team, I don’t quite get the connection that someone who is a varsity sport athlete in a totally differenct sport cannot compete in the club sports’ championships (though did compete on that club team in regular tournaments). Just cause you may be good at one sport, doesn’t make you varsity calibur in another. I mean she could suck at soccer for all they know, LOL. But in any case, was too bad because she was not able to go with her team that she had played for all season, to the regionals in NJ. She accepted it as a rule, but it was a new thing we learned this year.</p>
<p>Following up on what driver posted…and I know I have posted about this on CC before, particularly when there are threads (not this one) where there is that notion that athletes are not good students and got in cause they are athletes, etc…but in OUR public HS, the top kids in the class…like the top 15, were just about ALL varsity sport athletes and often in more than one sport. In my D’s graduating class…I recall…she was val with three varsity sports, the sal was in two but one he was a state standout, the person ranked 3rd was also a top three sport varsity athlete, the person ranked fourth was tops in two varsity sports. And so on. When it came time at graduation to give awards to the top scholar/athletes…they were from the very top of the class academically alone. </p>
<p>Also, while I was new to collegiate sports last year, one thing I liked was that at the National Championships in her sport, they gave out Academic All American Awards which I think is great because they recognized athletes who were also doing well in college academics. My D crashed in her national championship event unfortunately but her team came in second overall and she was thrilled to get Academic All American and to be recognized in that manner (I recall her calling to excitedly tell me of this within a minute of my receiving a call that her sister was in a car crash lying on the side of the highway for the ambulance and so this exciting news ending up going from her elation to extreme upset…so it is hard to forget it). </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>As a parent of a future DIII athlete with some high academic goals as well as a taste for painting her toenails while talking on her cell phone, IM’ing her friends, and writing a paper all at the same time, I’m all ears and very appreciative of stories from the trenches!</p>
<p>This broke me up! Your daughter and mine should get together, they sound exactly alike! These girls sound like the Queens of multitasking.</p>
<p>Fast stats on the number of
students dropping their college sports
from USN&WR top three LAC. </p>
<p>(Women’s Basketball)</p>
<p>Amherst Women’s Basketball Roster
list 4 seniors on a roster of 13</p>
<p>Swathmore Women’s Basketball Roster
list 5 seniors on a roster of 13</p>
<p>Williams Women’s Basketball Roster
list 1 senior on a roster of 14
Note of interest: 6 juniors on
Williams’ current roster.</p>
<p>25% of the rosters for women’s
basketball from Amherst, Swathmore
and Williams are seniors.</p>
<p>My D is loving her sport at a very academic D3. Her grades could be better, but between a very full sport schedule, travel, no bedtime/study limits from Mom & Dad, and a full-tilt-boogie college social life, she actually did pretty darn well.</p>
<p>One really important thing for the athlete is their teammates. Because of the time involved, these people will color the whole college experience. Luckily my D is crazy about her teammates and her coach. This explains why, when they host pre-frosh, the coach is very interested in hearing from the players who will fit emotionally/personality-wise with the team.</p>
<p>I have to admit it spooks me. I have found myself feeling compelled to make dang sure D knows what she’s getting into wanting to play D3 BBall. I’ve explained to the best of my ability the differences in D3 schools competitiveness, travel schedules, practice expectations, “Captains practices” in “off-season”, expected conditioning workouts, and shortened or obliterated holiday schedules. </p>
<p>I agree that as much research as possible be done as we have found a divergence in attitudes, even within the same conference.</p>
<p>I think that this thread shows a really good and realistic balance of the pressures and pleasures of collegiate athletics. It is definitely not for everyone, but I add to the posts above, that my S as a sophomore is still absolutely loving his team. This is a nationally-ranked D1 and so the competition and the time demands are extremely intense. Although I don’t know how, S has managed to balance the physical and mental rigors of this level of sport with excellent grades and more important, palpable excitement about what he is learning. He gets to know his profs and TAs and is exceptionally disciplined. I think he would be a bit miserable if he weren’t on the team.</p>
<p>The team runs in the mornings and practices in the afternoons; they also socialize together a lot, and also with athletes from other teams (they all get to know each other in the weight room, on adjacent practice fields, etc.)–and they are very supportive of each other–they go to their friends’ games/matches what have you when they can). </p>
<p>For the parents of prospective athletes–I wouldn’t worry too much. I think it is good to find a way to be sure they have had some warning (not that they will listen, necessarily) about how hard they will have to work, and the sacrifices they will have to make. If they love it, great; if they don’t, well hopefully they are not depending on athletic scholarship money to stay in school, and can drop from the team when it no longer is their passion. </p>
<p>I posted this link elsewhere as well, but this month’s Stanford magazine has a pretty balanced article about these pressures: <a href=“Page Not Found”>Page Not Found;
<p>I appreciate this thread and all the wisdom. My son is applying ED, as a recruit, to a DI (Ivy) with a top team in his sport. He also has high academic expectations for himself. One thing he has learned through the demands of his sport is a lot of discipline and sacrifice. He does like to “have a life”, so it should be interesting. Thanks for all the advise here.</p>