prestige of UC's

[sakky]

<p>

Yes, it is unfair. However, your analogy is even more unfair. It’s more like comparing the whole UC system to MIT and Harvard (schools that have relatively strong ties), as opposed to the entire Ivy League, which has minimal ties.

</p>

<p>Huh? Ties to what? </p>

<p>

“more outlets for students?” What does that mean? UCLA and Berkeley both have about 700 club type orginizations one can join, for starters.

</p>

<p>Well, I don’t want to put words in twylabloo’s mouth. But I gather that this is a reference to a problem of a lack of resources per capita. Berkeley has a lot of resources, but also has a lot of students trying to access those resources, such that what is available to an individual student may not be as much as what is available to an individual student elsewhere. For example, the Berkeley library system is huge, but if the books that you want have been checked out by somebody else, then that hugeness doesn’t help you very much. </p>

<p>

Correct me if i’m wrong for all you seasoned UC’ers (i’m an incoming Bruin) but yes, there can be some hundred students in one lecture hall, but you’re required to take a discussion section which I believe is capped off at 25 students, maybe less. I think you’d still get a sense of a smaller class size

</p>

<p>Yeah, but it’s only a sense of a smaller class size. Let’s face it. You’re coming to UC to learn from professors, not from a bunch of graduate-student TA’s. That’s not what you’re paying for. That’s not why you’re there. People aren’t competing for admissions spots to UC because they are champing at the bit to be taught by a bunch of graduate students. Am I wrong? </p>

<p>

I think in ANY post-secondary education, whether it’d be a private or public institution, any student will discover some type of outlet that will fit their wants and needs. It doesn’t matter how much more outlets a school has, it’s all up to the student to reach out and find those outlets for his/herself

</p>

<p>Yes, of course it is true that the student bears some responsibility for taking advantage of opportunities. On the other hand, let’s not kid ourselves. The kinds of available opportunities and outlets are also important. It’s a partnership between the school and the student, and both sides are responsible for making it work. You can’t lay all the blame on one or the other. So you can’t really say that the number of outlets doesn’t matter. It does matter. Nobody ever complains about a school having too many outlets. </p>

<p>

I can see why people would view the fact that UC students are just a “number,” but personally, I THRIVE in a situation like that. I think it gives me a sense of the real world, where there’s no hand holding, where I’m in charge of my own self, where I go out there and search for my own niche and direction in life. I’m a number, a Bruin, and damn proud of it.

</p>

<p>I’m very happy that you’re enjoying your experience at UC. Yet the fact is, a lot of people don’t enjoy their experience at UC. They don’t thrive in the UC environment.</p>

<p>Look, none of this is to say that I think UC is a bad school system. Indeed, I think the UC school system is pretty good, especially its graduate-school programs which I view as being some of the best in the world. However, I think what we can all agree on is that UC is not for everyone, and in particular, other schools are better at certain things. Some people will do well at UC, but other people will do better at other schools.</p>

[an6le]

<p>"Well, I don’t want to put words in twylabloo’s mouth. But I gather that this is a reference to a problem of a lack of resources per capita. Berkeley has a lot of resources, but also has a lot of students trying to access those resources, such that what is available to an individual student may not be as much as what is available to an individual student elsewhere. For example, the Berkeley library system is huge, but if the books that you want have been checked out by somebody else, then that hugeness doesn’t help you very much. "</p>

<p>I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Aren’t all libraries like that too? If a book is checked out, that’s too bad. I’m sure you can find another book with the same sources that you need. Last year, I wasn’t even an enrolled student at a UC (high school student) but I was able to walk into UC Irvine and UCLA to do research just like any other UC student. I found everything that I needed. The chances of two students looking for the same book at the same time is very slim. </p>

<p>The UC and CSU’s have an Inter-Library loan system. If you need a book but it’s only available from another UC, they’ll ship over that book to you in no time. If you need an article from a journal that’s available at another UC, the librarian will call up the other librarian at the other UC, they’ll photocopy that article, and send it back to you (in a big yellow envelope!). If you’re a responsible student, then you’d plan ahead and make sure you give time for the librarians to help you. </p>

<p>As for outlets, oh come’on, it’s college, if that’s not enough of an outlet for you.</p>

[mrxalleycat]

<p>UCs are prestige because most California residents would rather go to a UC school as oppose to going to a Cal State school…</p>

<p>It depends on location…
East Coast =mostly IVY
West Coast =mostly UCs</p>

<p>Both Berkeley and UCLA offer top-notch education that will help an undergraduate make a lot of money in the future…no question UCLA and Berkeley are outstanding schools to attend…</p>

<p>UCs help challenge students in a tough environment while competing with tons of people around you…</p>

[sakky]

<p>

I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Aren’t all libraries like that too? If a book is checked out, that’s too bad. I’m sure you can find another book with the same sources that you need. Last year, I wasn’t even an enrolled student at a UC (high school student) but I was able to walk into UC Irvine and UCLA to do research just like any other UC student. I found everything that I needed. The chances of two students looking for the same book at the same time is very slim.

</p>

<p>Obviously this is just an analogy, and like every analogy, it’s not perfect. However, to extend the (imperfect) analogy, if the library happened to have 2 copies of the book you needed, then the fact that one of them is checked out doesn’t hurt you. You got what you needed when you needed it and that’s all that matters to you. </p>

<p>However, the larger point that I was trying to make is that the UC’s suffer from a problem of lower resources per capita compared to the elite private schools. It’s not just library materials. It’s labs, it’s facilities, it’s tutoring, it’s all that. I’ll give you another story. I remember back when the Internet was just getting popular (Netscape had just launched their first Internet browser) and in those days the Berkeley dorms were not wired for Ethernet, so what people did was dial into Berkeley’s RAS student-access servers with their modems to get access to the Internet (this was when commercial ISP’s were still in their infancy). The RAS servers and lines were so overloaded that it could literally take you hours of dialing over and over again and getting busy signals before you’d finally establish a connection. Yeah, that’s right, you’d be waiting for hours to get on the Internet. Not only that, but there was also a ‘hunt’ going on for people to find access to non-public Berkeley RAS servers that weren’t overloaded. Many graduate departments would set up their own RAS systems to let their graduate students and profs bypass the regular Berkeley RAS and get onto the Internet quickly. So a lot of enterprising undergrads who were desperate to get onto the Internet from home would, ahem, ‘befriend’ certain graduate students to get an account on those private RAS systems. I know one girl who knew that a grad-student liked her, so she basically was able to get a few private RAS accounts from him and then hooked up a whole bunch of her friends that way. </p>

<p>Now obviously, all of this was eventually solved when the Berkeley dorms did get wired for Ethernet and when commercial ISP’s proliferated like kudzu. However, until that happened, it was a quite frustrating time for Berkeley students who wanted to use the Internet. What made things even worse was how smooth things were running in other schools. One of my friends, an Internet buff and EECS student, had a girlfriend who went to Pacific Union College (a small private LAC in Napa), and how she never had a single problem in ever dialing into her campus RAS. He would rail bitterly at how a no-name school like PUC could provide such easy and available dial-up Internet access to all their students and yet here’s Berkeley, a prestigious engineering and computer science powerhouse, forcing its students to wait for hours for their dialup Internet access. </p>

<p>It is precisely these kinds of annoying things that get people frustrated about their Berkeley experience. Berkeley clearly has the resources to provide a good experience. After all, anybody who had a private RAS account got online without any wait. However, the really useful resources are generally not publicly available, or are deliberately hidden, or are otherwise difficult to access.</p>

[TwylaBloo]

<p>Whoa Drab, I didn’t mean that the UCs didn’t have a lot of resources/clubs…i am totally for the UC system, my mom went to a UC, my brother went to a UC, my dad works at a UC, and i’ll probably go to a UC too…i’m just saying, because private schools most likely have more money in their budget than the UCs do, it could possibly be easier to do research, get to know your teachers better there etc…you might just have to “speak up” more at UC to do actual research and the like, since a thesis is not required at a UC and many UC’s (UCLA, Cal) have 20,000+ students.</p>

[an6le]

<p>Hey Sakky,</p>

<p>I get what you’re saying, but that’s just Berkeley though. All of the UC’s are very independent of each other. I go to UCLA, I could care less about Berkeley, hah.</p>

<p>Just another random fact: The Internet was invented at UCLA.</p>

[ssugarmantra]

<p>Well, a few things.</p>

<p>First, I’m a third year at UC Davis, and here’s what I’ve experienced: it’s true you are numbers. Something I’ve learned a TON about at this school is beuracracy. The people may care about your plight (if you have one) but only certain people. What’s very true about Davis is that if you go to school here, chances are you’ll end up at grad school or working here; this is just my experience with talking to people. I’ve also noticed everyone in this school, rich or poor, is well-travelled. I’m not sure if it’s onle UCs but we have a lot of abroad programs.</p>

<p>I didn’t want to go to Davis. My first choice was UCLA and I was waitlisted. I should mention I’m a transfer, and I didn’t think I had a chance in hell of transferring to better programs than the UCs offered (like ivy league). If I’d known I may have gone elsewhere, my parents have money. </p>

<p>And I wouldn’t discount our undergrad program. Many people use UCs as springboards to great Ivy grad schools. UC Santa Cruz, while in the lower 50, has a breadth program that is supposedly really good for prepping for grad school. At Davis, I really didn’t think much of the school until I got here. These classes are not easy, and the program is good. This is just my experience. UCs also each offer completely different experiences. I can vouch for Davis as being a kind of laid-back-determined vibe; really intelligent students somehow pulling off the stress of college with a walking pace instead of a clawing running one. Berkeley, from what I’ve experienced (my sister went there) is very politically active. It’s an advantage for Californians because it seems ones that can get into UCs, unlike me, get into pretty much the one they want, from Santa Cruz to Berkeley, and make their selection off of the culture they want. I expected so many students here to say they were rejected by Berkeley, but it seems many, many of them chose Davis because it fit them better.</p>

<p>As far as Tufts, I have a friend at Tufts and I know the experience is different. The campus is smaller, the class size is smaller and the people working for the university often know and relate to you. I cannot tell you how many times this year I had to deal with Davis and them telling me “the rules are the rules.” It’s something I learned to appreciate but also wish I went to a private school. </p>

<p>Oh! Also. My sister up and moved to New York after graduating from Berkeley, and no one gave a crap about her education. Especially in a city like that, there are many Yale, Harvard, Cornell, NYU, Columbia, Brown, Georgetown and other such graduates for them to look at. Sure, her education didn’t hurt her, but she may as well have gone to Irvine, UCSD or any other UC. Berkeley is a known name on the East Coast, but I don’t think people care. Davis is not known, the reactions I get from people are, “Well, I haven’t heard of Davis, but I hear the UC system is really good.”</p>

[katieeeee]

<p>Is Berkeley generally more prestigious than LA?</p>

[Gospy]

<p>Generally, I would say so.</p>

[smokeylarue]

<p>Berkeley is thought of more as a “nerd school” than LA here in California.</p>

[Shark_bite]

<p>Berkley is one of the most prestigious schools in the world. its considered equal or better then some ivies. berkley is great, but ucla is also quite prestigious. the other uc’s are not as prestigious as those two. so bascially berkley has ivy caliber prestige, while ucla has top university and top public prestige.</p>

[bluebayou]

<p>ABSOLUTELY, no question about it.</p>

[ndude237]

<p>Instate fees are less than 10k a year for UCs. The low SAT score can be contributed to affirmitive action. As far as opportunities California offers, the sky is the limit. The Economy of California ranks something like 6th in the world. There is no way you can knock UCs. Ya they may not be the greatest route for out of state students, but as far as state schools go they are right there with UNC and UVA. And not to mention UCSB has the most beautiful campus on the face of the planet.</p>

[DRab]

<p>ndude237, according to the law, UC admissions cannot use Affirmative Action.</p>