Another author that I have read quite a bit of is Elizabeth Gaskell who wrote in 1850s. Perhaps you have seen on PBS Wives and Daughters and Cranford (a compilation of several stories.)
In Wives and Daughters the father was of the opinion that women didn’t need to have any education. It was seen to ruin them. In My Lady Ludlow, Lady Ludlow would not hire any servants who could read and was against the peasant children having lessons once a week.
I could see an argument being made that Mrs B and her sister were probably given a fair inferior education than the brother recieved. Does anyone know what kinds of standards were in place in the 1790s?
Certainly both Mr and Mrs B were fine with the girls having minimal education and being self directed in their learning. If Kitty and Lydia were not interested in learning more, they were not being forced into furthering their studies.
It is said that both Jane and Elizabeth had spent considerable time with the Gardiners. Possibly she gave them the encouragement and guidance they needed. Poor Mary seems to have fallen through the cracks.
Mrs. Bennet brought a dowry of 4,000 pounds. Not bad!
@“Snowball City”, North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell is one of my very favorite books. Have read it several times (and was mighty pleased with casting of Richard Armitage as John Thornton. :x)
I think that the education of the time for well-bred young women was the sort that Georgianna Darcy would exemplify: music, art (drawing and painting), French (and possibly other languages), embroidery and other decorative needlework, “use of the globes” (presumably geography to some degree), some degree of literature, perhaps some history. There were obviously exceptions.
Most of the Bennet girls did not achieve that spectrum of “accomplishments” before leaving the schoolroom and coming out. That was part of the problem.
Elizabeth Gaskell wrote the wonderful novel North and South, which obviously owes a lot to P&P. Those who have not seen it should run, not walk, to the 4-part production starring Richard Armitage. I promise that you will LOVE it!
In 18th and 19th century England, when a gentleman was said to have an income of say 2000 (Bennet), 5000 Bingley), or 10,000 (Darcy) a year from his estate that primarily refers to money derived from rents - rents from tenants and tenant farmers. Mr. Bennet is free to read and annotate books all day because he doesn’t have to do any actual labor himself for his yearly 2000 pounds.
Consolation’s recommendation years ago brought me to North and South. Consolation, I may have forgotten to thank you for that superb recommendation, @Consolation. It’s extraordinary.
North and South is great but I hesitate to suggest it as a gateway drug to Gaskell. The northern dialect can be tough going and I had to read up on the Oxford Dissenters in order to get what was driving the father.
A very successful author that JA is know to have read is Fanny Burney. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Frances_Burney It has been many years since I read either Evelina or Cecilia. Is anyone here familiar with those works? (As a side note, her description of her mastectomy is truly gruesome. No link provided by me. I don’t want to be responsible for any nightmares!)
@“Snowball City” It has been a very long time since I read either Fanny Burney or Elizabeth Gaskell. Thank you for the reminder. I think I had Evelina on my reread list a few years ago but never got to it. I have added both Burney and Gaskell to this year’s list.
I didn’t know anything about Fanny Burney until I started reading about Jane Austen’s influences when writing P & P. I was unaware, for example, that the title is likely drawn from a Burney quote:
One of the reasons Jane Bennet seems a bit boring is that she guards her feelings so well.At the beginning of chapter 6 this is stated - she does not want her feelings to feed the gossips such as her mother aka 'the impertinent."
Later after Bingley returns to Netherfield she expresses that she is conscious of people trying to notice how she takes his return and she dreads any remarks. vol 3, chapter 11.
I see her as another casualty of her mother and Mrs Phillips, growing up always knowing that your thoughts and feelings will be spread around the social circle. It would have been very difficult.
On one of my rereads I paid special attention to Jane and her point of view. I came away liking her more, seeing her kind words and attitude as having a fair bit of wisdom. Certainly it is a buttress against gossip - negative things said get passed on much quicker than neutral comments.
I would be interested in hearing from readers who have also read Persuasion.
I believe it is an interesting companion piece to P and P. It takes the what ifs and spins on from there-
What if Wickham hadn’t been a cad?
What if he had proposed to Elizabeth?And she turned him down for having no income on the strong advice of Aunt Gardiner?
What if he became successful and they ran into each other 10 years later?
Persuasion has the idiot sisters.
Persuasion has the dad that is not interested in the daughters’ lives.
Persuasion has a crucial letter that exposes his character to her.
Mr. Bennet is a saint compared to Anne Eliot’s father. He was awful. At least Mr. B. loved his daughters and recognized how he’d failed them.
Anne seemed more tractable (as a young woman) than Elizabeth. I wonder if spirited Lizzy would have allowed herself to be talked out of a love match. That’s not a criticism of Anne—she’s a wonderful character—but I feel like they would have made different choices. I think Anne has more than a little Jane in her, in her quiet service to others.
In Persuasion sailors without family money have the opportunity to become rich. Anne Elliot turns down Wentworth’s proposal, at her aunt’s insistence, and lives to regret it. She feels she should have followed her heart. However, in * Mansfield Park*, Fanny Price’s mother marries a sailor without money and it leads to family catastrophe. It seems to me Austen explores the same story in a variety of ways. There are so many silly sisters and mothers in these stories. We have to look hard for an admirable father.
I agree with Mary that we can’t really compare Mr. Bennet and Mr. Elliot.
It’s interesting to think about all the aunts in the stories. Lizzie talking to Aunt Gardiner about Wickham:
In Austen’s world, where the heroines rarely have a fortune, or go to London for a season, and have to pretty much make do for marriage prospects with local men or friends of local families, and need to find husbands capable of supporting a family, the pickings seem pretty slim to me.
Aunt Gardiner would never have told Elizabeth to turn down the proposal of non-cad Wickham. An army officer would have been a good match for her.
A penniless sailor didn’t look like a good match for the daughter of Sir Walter Elliot of Kellynch. I don’t see the comparison as apt.
Anne Elliot’s entire family was awful except the dead mother: the whiny malingering younger sister, the snobbish older sister, and that vapid popinjay of a father.
An army officer with an adequate income would be a good match, but Wickham does not measure up in that respect. Mrs. Gardiner is clever to appeal to Elizabeth’s affection for her father. If she had said, “You must not disappoint your mother,” I suspect it would have carried little weight.
@“Cardinal Fang”, I hope to someday have the opportunity to call someone a “vapid popinjay.” Currently my favorite insult.
I’m embarrassed to say you’re right about Mrs. Gardiner, @alh. (Embarrassed because I’ve read P&P approximately 467 times and should know better.) But (assuming Bingley and Darcy never show up) who are Jane and Elizabeth Bennett supposed to marry? Other officers? A male Lucas, if one were the right age?
