^the letter from Mr. Collins proposing his visit that Mr. Bennet reads to his family. How do the rest of you interpret “every possible amends”? I thought he was telling Mr. Bennet he is coming to meet the daughters for the possible purpose of marrying one of them, especially since he tells the dinner table Lady Catherine has told him to get a wife. So I thought he had made his intentions known to Mr. Bennet and it was up to Mr. Bennet to object or not allow him to visit or give him advice when he arrived. jmho.
The situation with Bingley and Darcy asking for the daughters’ hands seems a little different since they were not family and, in at least the case of Darcy, Mr. Bennet seems surprised. Still, Darcy makes sure Lizzie is accepting before he goes to her father. My impression of “those times” is that only respectable young men were allowed to meet the daughters of gentlemen and the fathers (or other male family member) would have interfered if they thought a young man’s attentions towards their daughters were not appropriate. A young woman’s social life was severely restricted. Anyway, I think that was the ideal folks were assuming. Then you have the Bennet girls running around with those soldiers. I have no idea if this was a norm of sorts or these are just really wild girls for that time and place and we are supposed to understand that from the story. Garland has such an excellent point about nuance when we consider the past.
GWTW -
Mary: When you asked upthread which book besides P&P would elicit such instant interest, GWTW instantly popped into my head! But I certainly don’t find a GWTW discussion very entertaining these days. I feel an obligation to talk about it with the younger generation of my family if they read it and give them a suggested reading list to accompany it. It isn’t clear to me if any of them have appreciated my input
OT, but in my mind, GWTW is one of those books that awareness has or should have relegated it to history. Liked it eighth grade; would not be able to stomach it now.
I agree alh. I thought Mr. Collins was definitely setting the stage to pick a daughter for marriage.
I am also not a big Mr. Bennet fan. He picked favorites and treated his daughters differently based upon who he liked the best. I actually think all the daughters turned out pretty well considering their somewhat dysfunctional parents.
I’m not really sure many of Austen’s fathers are very admirable characters. Or the mothers, for that matter. Everyone has flaws, but she writes some very flawed parents. imho.
I don’t guess I can think of any criticism of the Morelands, but that’s about it.
First Impressions works as a title for this book. It is not as impactful as Pride and Prejudice, but correctly describes how first impressions can set a tone for relationships. The title Pride and Prejudice encourages us to more deeply consider the characters and how their pride and personal prejudices influence their relationships. I don’t think it would be too difficult to find specific examples of pride and prejudices in every character in the story. It is probably also pretty easy to find specific examples in ourselves.
@alh, When we read Jane Eyre for the CC Book Club, we read it in conjunction with Wide Sargasso Sea, which helped throw into relief some of the more offensive issues as regards women (especially women of color), mental health, etc. found in JE. If we ever read Gone with the Wind as a group, we would have to do the same thing — combine it with Beloved, or something along those lines. Even so, I have a feeling the discussion would be fraught, to put it mildly.
I looked up Jane Austen’s parents to see if she drew at all from life. Her mother and father seemed more put together (and more compatible) than the Bennets. Rev. George Austen was “scholarly and calm,” which is a trait of Mr. Bennet, for all his other faults. Her mother, Cassandra, seemed to have something of Elizabeth in her. https://www.janeausten.co.uk/the-reverend-george-and-mrs-austen-a-closer-look-at-jane-austens-parents/
Jane Austen was one of eight children. In my Austen fandom musings, I wonder how many children Darcy and Elizabeth might have had. Eight youngsters running around would have either really loosened up Mr. Darcy or driven him nuts.
I think I liked Mr. Bennett the first time I read P and P, but with each rereading he annoys me a little more.
I think in theory young women were sheltered, but in practice they did go off on long walks and meet up with young men their parents didn’t know about. I do like his concern that Elizabethis not just being blinded by Darcy’s wealth - he does want her to have a happy marriage. “My child, let me not have the grief of seeing you unable to respect your partner in life. You know not what you are about.” That says I think worlds about his regrets for his own marriage.
First Impressions is not a bad title, but what I like about Pride and Prejudice is the duality. At first it seems Darcy is pride and Elizabeth is prejudice, but really there is plenty to go around of both.
One of my favorite lines from early on, regarding Darcy’s behavior at the dance. “That is very true,” replied Elizabeth, “and I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine.”
I must say that I find the idea of Lydia as some kind of latter-day girl-power rebel icon beyond ludicrous.
Darcy and Elizabeth are meant for each other from the beginning. He is the only man she meets who is her equal in intelligence, spirit, and integrity. And vice versa. And of course they are soon wildly attracted to each other, although both are loath to admit it. It is amazing to me how Jane manages to imbue the story with sexual tension while being so circumspect.
JA seems to scorn “passion”. Passionate bad poetry can kill love; Mr and Mrs Bennets marriage was ill fated due to young passion; Lydia’s passion for Wickham brings disgrace; Mrs Gardinar distrusts being violently in love, etc.
Vehicles for an enduring love involve being a kindred spirit, admiring the character of the person you are with, a steady regard for the person’s intelligence and values - qualities that continue after the first flush of excitement AND can make an otherwise practical match companionable.
As I look at the characters I struggle with taking them straight up as they are or recognizing that JA was a social satirist. That form requires over the top archetypes such as Mrs B. So do I criticize her or just laugh at the stereotypical marriage mad mama?
How much look at each character individually and how much do I look at them as types? Help me…
I really liked Charlotte on this reread. And no she’s not doomed, she’s a realist. She’s figured out how to live with Mr. Collins without him driving her crazy, for example by having her sitting room in the rear of the house, because Mr. Collins prefers to sit where he can see the comings and goings on the road.
In Chapter VI Well,’’ said Charlotte,`I wish Jane success with all my heart; and if she were married to him to-morrow, I should think she had as good a chance of happiness as if she were to be studying his character for a twelvemonth. Happiness in marriage is entirely a matter of chance. If the dispositions of the parties are ever so well known to each other, or ever so similar before-hand, it does not advance their felicity in the least. They always contrive to grow sufficiently unlike afterwards to have their share of vexation; and it is better to know as little as possible of the defects of the person with whom you are to pass your life.’’
Elizabeth responds, ``You make me laugh, Charlotte; but it is not sound. You know it is not sound, and that you would never act in this way yourself.’’ But of course we know that’s exactly what Charlotte does, with her eyes open.
I would feel doomed if I were Charlotte! But I guess I’m a hopeless romantic. I agree that there is an element of chance in marriage, but to walk willingly into a union with Mr. Collins–where there is no real love or respect–doesn’t bode well for their future together.
That sounds just like Mr. and Mrs. Bennet, but in reverse (with him keeping to his study). Maybe Mr. Bennet feels more resigned than doomed, but note that he warns Elizabeth not to make the same mistake he did. I wonder if Charlotte will give her children similar advice, after she’s endured a couple decades of marriage with Mr. Collins.
I think she was a bit awkward too. Elizabeth’s first visit to Rosings she noted that the daughter only spoke to her companion Mrs Jenkinson (or was it Jenkins?)
Don’t forget, assuming that Mr. Collins outlives Mr. Bennet, she will be the mistress of Longbourne, and not have to put up with Lady Catherine at all. She will be withing easy visiting range of her family and friends, and if she has a son, he will in due course inherit.
Although the idea of having sex with Mr. Collins is pretty horrible, she will have a lot to occupy her besides him going forward. And she will not be a spinster dependent upon the kindness of others.
Well, since she is sickly, she never became a great singer, piano player, artist, intellectual, dancer, …as a sickly person, she didn’t fail her mother’s expectations.
