<p>The Harvard Supplement asks about the intended major. It also has a Division of Applied Physics and Engineering which is in the process of becoming a School.</p>
<p>You mean a lot of people want " diversity " ? I don’t see a lot of Asians complaining as to whether they have 1 or black classmates. You are presuming
that people who have not gone to school with people are automatically racists.
Way back in the 80’s and 90’s there were more blacks than Asians at the University of Iowa, did Asians demand preferences to increase their numbers. If Asians at that time at jhe University of Iowa said " increase our numbers " during the administration of U of Iowa would increase their numbers. Whereas if the black students said the same thing, it is more like a press conference would occur. Now that there are more Asians than blacks at the University of Iowa are they demanding that Asian numbers should increase , blacks certainly are…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Historically, this is farthest from the truth. Can you elaborate ?
I think you have been watching too many stories of the making of Olympians.</p>
<p>fast 27,</p>
<pre><code> harvard accepts what you call shy white " bookworms ", Harvard accepts students based on on their " hooks " and not because they score 2400 on the SAT. Harvard already has admitted on record that it denies the majority of applicants
</code></pre>
<p>with perfect SAT scores.</p>
<p>Captain of the house</p>
<p>Aren’t you engaging in stereotypes, a lot them that is ? How would you know about Chinatowns ? you are not even Chinese… You say a high percentage of Asians apply to the ivies and not to "safeties " and "excellent " small schools??You mean they don’t apply to Syracuse ? Georgetown? or Bowdoin,Bates, Colby, Grinnell? What business is that of yours to tell Asians as to where they should apply? Here in California , I don’t tell whites as to what school they should apply to? Asians don’t tell whites or as to what percentage of whites should apply to what school be it a "safety " or “excellent school ( whatever that means) ? Are all Asians the same ? Or is this really a matter of competition between your son or daughter and Asians?”</p>
<p>OK, I did say I haven’t looked at a college application forms in a while. Many kids I know put “undeclared” as they really haven’t decided on a major at the time of application. I was mainly addressing HYP.
I know Penn has a business school and that has a separate admissions in itself.</p>
<p>bay,</p>
<pre><code> People who apply to music , fine arts programs, theater etc. are not judged by their SAT scores but by their talent or portfolio and that is true whether you are in China or the United States, so how can u say that I don’t value other criteria?
</code></pre>
<p>Marite,
As i said b4 not many whites or blacks apply to those schools from California either. Do you honestly think that even if Bowdoin increased the number of Asians at Bowdoin it will go on forever ? They will put a qouta on Asians eventurally. You are the one who is being illogical, and why did you introduce this " pho " business ? What is the relation of that soup to this discussion?</p>
<p>
You have got to be kidding! “On record”. Are you sure? </p>
<p>Well, there is the smoking gun Li needed. </p>
<p>Maybe they will change the name of the school to “Princeton and Li”.</p>
<p>This is news to me. How absolutely unfair. I bet no one on this thread knew that Harvard rejects some 2400’s. Do you think any other schools do this? Stone them all! Let’s not rest until every last SAT High Achiever is given their rightful place among America’s elite colleges. We shall overcome. Power to the High Scoring People. Right on. We have the truth on our side. </p>
<p>Everybody now, with feeling - All we are say----ing, is give the SAT I a chance. </p>
<p>That’s right. A chance to change the world. I know that is the only criteria I care about in a surgeon, lawyer or a President, prof, or podiatrist.</p>
<p>Elaboration isn’t necessary. However.</p>
<p>China only very recently started to promote the concept of people making their own careers. For the last 50 years, all careers were determined by the government. From iron rice bowl to high official. So, the bull-headed jerks that America prizes would not have been so useful in that system.</p>
<p>As for the days of the emperors and the dynasties? Hmm. Democracies? Entrepreneurial? Sure China has a great tradition of entrepreneurship. For those who left the country…Within the country it was a tradition of negotiation etc. but not massive accumulation of capital by sheer effort and skill.</p>
<p>And don’t get me wrong or accuse me of whatever. I spend an enormous amount of time in China and my chance to replace my family fortune, first built by my ancestors and now on its last legs, depends on China, the Chinese, their economy, and their growing belief that to be rich is in fact glorious. To say nothing of my friends here in the US.</p>
<p>But, to those interested only in poorly formed polemic, that other stuff just isn’t too interesting, is it?</p>
<p>I do not care whether you live in a predominantly Asian area, there are many Asians who live in predominantly white areas also. You think you are the only one who chooses a school based on the criteria that you claimed was used by you and your children in choosing a school ? Certainly not, but there is a pattern among white students of predominantly white high schools in California like in the WEst Side of Los Angeles of choosing predominantly white UC campuses like UCSC and UCSB or Cal State Chico. People choose schools for all kinds of reasons. It could mean that there are whites who attend UCSC or UCSB or Cal state Chico because they could not get into the more competetive UC campuses or because they are minorities in those campuses ( which they are ). Both UCSC and UCSB offer engineering programs and hence by your logic those schools should not be a turnoff to Asians, and Asians do attend engineering programs at UCSC and UCSB.</p>
<p>calmom,</p>
<pre><code> And that is the problem of Princeton isn’t it Calmom, to prove that itadmitted asians with lower SAT scores than Li right? But then an even more embarrasing situation arises for Princeton, it has to prove why it admitted many whites who got lower SAT scores than the Asians it admitted with lower SAT scores than Jian LI, right Calmom?
</code></pre>
<p>“You mean a lot of people want " diversity " ? I don’t see a lot of Asians complaining as to whether they have 1 or black classmates. You are presuming that people who have not gone to school with people are automatically racists.”</p>
<p>I presume nothing, but you continue to presume to put words in my worth. Specifically, I never called anyone an “automatic racist.” Did I say 100% of people want diversity? No, I did not. I said lots of people, many people. And those many people (including Asians) have posted this year, last yr., the year before last, that they have pointedly rejected the prospect of attending a high-Asian-percentage school. Blacks have posted that about traditionally black schools, whites have posted that about NE heavily-preppy schools. Clearly lots of people don’t care. You see those people at racially lopsided schools. It suits them fine. Or maybe they have different reasons for going to those places: best acceptance, best finan. aid, best support, best academic program of their choice, best location relative to home. Neither preferring wide diversity nor having no preference makes one a racist. </p>
<p>The point about many people wanting diversity, is that this effects applications to colleges. It also indirectly affects college policies. While the Universities are more driven by their internal priorities, they would obviously not be interested in adopting such a controversial or extreme policy that a significant number of <em>irreplaceably</em> promising students would look elsewhere. They need to maintain a balance among their own standards of excellence, the University’s mission, and public demand/expectations.</p>
<p>Folks. We are dealing with someone who doesn’t want to understand. I’m done with him. ;)</p>
<p>alumother,</p>
<pre><code> We can engage in a long discussion about Chinese history , I never said that dynastical rule in China was a democracy, but Chinese merchants did accumulate great wealth be it in salt or silk, and that mark was left in the gardens of Suzhou and Yangzhou. Of course the Communist regime was neither
</code></pre>
<p>democratic or entrepeneural but that is life…</p>
<p>The Ivies, the LACs and many private schools do not admit students for altruistic reasons, they admit them for selfish self - serving reasons. What they are asking for is that they be treated fairly. Am I obligated to have my tax money used to support Harvard or Amherst , schools that practice alumni legacy preferences?</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, </p>
<p>Are you talking to me?</p>
<p>I’m with you Cur - someone remember to turn out the lights.</p>
<p>No, actually Princeton doesn’t have to show anything - the burden of proof is on the claimant to show discrimination. The SAT scores are irrelevant unless it is shown that SAT scores are the primary determinant of admissions for everyone. If Asians with lower SAT scores are admitted over Asians with higher scores, that’s just very good evidence that the scores are not the determining factor within any given ethnic group. A study showing that admitted Asian students tend to have higher scores than other groups means nothing more than a study that shows that admitted Caucasian students tend to be taller than other groups – its just a random data point that has no bearing on the admissions process.</p>
<p>Good post, calmom. I also don’t understand why some people are assuming that the only thing keeping certain Asians out of elite schools is unreasonable “stereotyping.” While judging people based on stereotypes is distasteful and wrong, some stereotypes are based on a degree of truth. Isn’t it possible that a higher than average number of Asian are math/science oriented compared to the rest of the population? Or that, since their strengths lie in math, their essays tend to be less compelling?
It is also possible that Asians are hurt by a process - and a culture - that arbitrarily assigns greater value to some qualities than to others. If Asian cultures do indeed tend to value politeness, respect, and obedience more than American culture, it is admirable in many ways - except in the recommendations and application process, when teachers and adcoms might respond more to a somewhat spunkier, more outgoing candidate. The thing is, this is unaviodable. If certain American kids went to China, they might find that some teachers found what they considered normal discourse to be disrespectful. All cultures have values, and while some may be skewed, it isn’t necessarily discrimination to desire certain traits over others. Similarly, a skilled debator may have a talent eqaul to that of an actor, but the actor will be more desirable to adcoms, since it has more of ana impact on the school.
Don’t get me wrong - I’m sure there is great diversity within the Asian community as well. However, it isn’t outside the realm of possibility that there may be certain traits that are more prevalent in that population - and either because a college can’t have an overabundance of bio majors, or because they happen to respond better to qualities less prized in the Asian community, it leads to a greater proportion of qualified Asian students being rejected. This isn’t discrimination, it’s life.</p>