Would you tell me what you and your daughter found displeasing about Princeton? I’ll try to visit, but I don’t know if I’ll be able to (cost concerns) and I’d love to know what you thought. Also, as a Cal Bear, I assume your impression of Stanford is less than stellar. Biases aside, was there anything specific you didn’t like?
Unfortunately, I won’t get financial aid anywhere. I’m at that tight spot where I don’t qualify for any need-based aid, but it’ll be a stretch to pay 70-80K for college. Hence why Berkeley is still in my list, despite the somewhat toxic culture.
That’s what I was thinking! Stanford’s campus, in my opinion, is very blah. It looks exactly like its affluent Palo Alto surroundings.
Wow. That’s incredibly helpful, thank you. While I knew it’d be easier to get a FAANG job from Stanford purely based on location, I was worried about research in college. Do you happen to know which professor he’s working with?
I don’t know if landing a FAANG job/internship is any easier if your school is in the area or not. They all hire widely and are very driven by multiple code tests. If you know someone on the “inside”, they typically can get you directly to the code test stage. I do think that the density of startups in SV make opportunities there more available than OOS schools. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure Princeton and MIT have local startup opportunities, but the density of startups in SV is unmatched. One word of caution though - according to our S, the code tests used by FAANG hiring are difficult, but the tests used by startups are insane (I guess they hire fewer so need to be more careful).
I don’t want to identify the PI or lab that our S is at, but I just wanted to show that research opportunities are there if you want them. I’m sure that’s the case at the other schools on your radar.
@daunt18 : I was mainly being silly, but Stanford has a suburban sheltered feel to me the few times I’ve been there. Berkeley is definitely a grittier place. I’ll ask D about Princeton. I was not on that trip. I actually thought the architecture & area would appeal to her, and I would have been happy to have her there since my brother lives just outside Philadelphia and worked in Trenton at the time. One year for Thanksgiving, she went home with friend who lived a few blocks away from Princeton, and admitted afterward that she might have been hasty in rejecting it. Not that she ever regretted going to Dartmouth.
What is “toxic culture”?
Berkeley does have, as noted above, a more “gritty” feel. It also has a more “economy class” feel, and the SES level of the students is not as high as the private schools you list. But that does not prevent getting an excellent education in CS.
@AboutTheSame Would you ask her about Princeton? At this point I think the only thing going for Princeton as opposed to the other schools is the historic campus and feeling like you’re a part of a legacy. If that’s not there, I need to start genuinely looking at my other options.
@ucbalumnus Toxic culture as in wildly competitive weed-out classes for CS and professors that don’t pay any attention to their students thanks to the 6x larger population. I’ve heard far more tales of woe from Cal students than MIT/Princeton/Stanford students, but that may also be because I know more Cal students and MIT/… students might be more prepared.
I would be fine with the gritty feel of Cal, in fact I prefer its campus over Stanford’s rich greenery. I went to school in downtown - I’d feel at home in a hustle-bustle place like Berkeley. The likely fact is if I get into Berkeley, unless I get an offer from MIT, I’m going to Berkeley for the cost and the job placement. I’m just worried about how I’ll do there.
CS 61A and 61B are not graded on a curve, so grades are based on how well you do, not how you compete with others. If you applied for EECS and get in, you won’t have to worry about grade or GPA to stay in the major beyond C / 2.0.
Also, while Berkeley CS 61A is over 1,000 students, the introductory CS courses elsewhere are large (e.g. over 700 for Stanford CS 106A and Harvard CS 50).
If cost is an issue, then go to Cal.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of Berkeley, the large classes nor the difficulty in changing majors once there. As a parent, Princeton and Stanford are schools that I’d “beg, borrow and steal” for my child to attend. MIT as well. Cal would be dead last on my and my kid’s list.
I have to laugh at your comment about “Stanford’s rich greenery.” If you’re a runner or cyclist, that “lush greenery” is almost Zen-like. The “Dish” is a great workout when preparing for Spartan Races. 
I applied L&S to Cal, honestly because I was in a bad place at the time and I just wanted to get in. I hear the three weed out courses to declare CS have a 50% fail rate.
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Haha, unfortunately I’m not an athlete whatsoever, so I don’t benefit much from a pretty landscape. I’ve been to the Stanford campus hundreds of times, and by “rich greenery” I mean both “rich” as in reeking of classy tech wealth and “greenery” as you mentioned. Stanford’s campus, to me, is not a pro.
Should you be fortunate enough to have a choice from the four schools you’ve mentioned then academic focus and fit should help you decide. Consider each schools academics side-by-side (especially if you’re interested in a given track) and research opportunities (if that’s what you like). Then consider campus cultures, facilities, and environments.
Our S ranked his top 4 prospective schools (his entire list had 12 schools) as this:
Academics broke into two buckets (was interested in a very specific branch of CS):
- Stanford, CMU, Cal
- MIT
Campus/Culture
- Stanford, CMU
- MIT, Cal
Two things to note. First, on academics, he had been following several professors lectures and papers for a while and he definitely had his favorites. Second, he grew up in a suburban environment, so it was no surprise that he leaned more toward Stanford and CMU in that regard. Many people on CC use the term “gritty” when talking about Cal. I think our S used a different term
In the end, he was not accepted at MIT, but was accepted to Stanford, CMU/SCS, and Cal (and many others). He knew the curriculum at each school (actually mapped out a potential 4 year roadmap at each) and had visited each one. Came down to the more suburban Stanford and CMU. He’s very happy in Palo Alto 
L&S CS requires a 3.3 GPA in CS 61A, 61B, 70. Grade distributions indicate that about half of students in those courses earn B+ or higher grades (B+ = 3.3 in GPA calculation). (Nowhere near half fail if you mean F grades.)
@daunt18 congratulations on Princeton. I live in town and can tell you the campus is beautiful. The town of Princeton is a classic college town and it is right across from campus. You can easily walk to restaurants, Bars, movies, theatre, Starbucks, multiple independent coffee shops, Wawa, CVS, etc. There is a train station right on campus that takes you on a 5 minute ride to trains to NYC And Newark airport (50-60 min ride to NYC, 30-40 min ride to EWR) also Philadelphia is 1 hour by car. Let me know if you have any specific questions about the town or surrounding area.
Love the town of Princeton. I have a childhood friend who lives in town, and we stayed at his house during the Preview Day a couple of years ago. Watching the movie, “I.Q.” (Walter Matthau as idiosyncratic but lovable Einstein and Meg Ryan as his fictional niece) depicts the town quite well, as the entire movie was filmed in town – its bucolic landscapes, Einstein’s house and its quaint neighborhood, Institute for Advanced Study, etc. Don’t know which I love more, the town or the campus. Let’s just say I love both.
Half fail as in half don’t make the grade cut for L&S CS, as your stat shows. Of course, you should account for “what if you get a A- and then a B- and then a B+” and such, but purely based on that, it’s hard to get in.
If you have to worry about clearing the bar in order to declare CS at Berkeley’s L&S, your chance at MIT, honestly, isn’t going to be very good.
@daunt18 : D recalls being turned off by the preppy air of Princeton. Mind you, we’re Berkeley folks and she went to one of the more preppy private high schools in the Bay Area but still …
Princeton didn’t look as bad after a couple of years at Dartmouth, where she got more acclimated to that vibe – enjoyed frat parties [frosh were not barred back then] and even joined a sorority, which surprised the [deleted] out of me, but Dartmouth’s Greek scene is different from other schools.
She was mainly put off from Princeton by the impersonal reception she got there, which was similar to Harvard and a stark contrast to Dartmouth, where she felt embraced and part of the family. Small K-8; larger but still small high school; she/we might have not anticipated the coldness of a large university. For her, Dartmouth was an excellent fit. For you, Princeton may work just fine.
Hope this helps. ATS
“I mean both “rich” as in reeking of classy tech wealth”
No doubt, while I love to make fun of the ivies for their display of wealth, Stanford and many non-ivy privates ooze wealth as well.
“The likely fact is if I get into Berkeley, unless I get an offer from MIT, I’m going to Berkeley for the cost and the job placement.”
If affordability is going to be a top consideration, it’s going to be very hard to beat Berkeley for CS, it just is.