Not contesting that—I was reacting to a post upthread that claimed that private industry would handle these sorts of things differently because of the fear of lawsuits, which doesn’t make sense, since both of them are equally subject to lawsuits (and both equally have lawyers on staff).
I’m trying to understand Berkeley’s rationale for deciding that Marcy was guilty but should not be punished, and the whole thing should be hushed up. Remember, this story came out because the victims publicized it; the university was silent. The university tried to hush the whole thing up.
Let’s for a moment assume, apparently counterfactually, that Berkeley wants to encourage victims of harassment to report. What happens when victims do report true harassment by a person in a position of power? The university might not be able to substantiate their claim, in which case they have just angered a person who has power over their academic career. Or the university might substantiate their claim, in which case, the perpetrator gets no punishment and they have just angered a person who has power over their academic career.
So, um, what is supposed to be the benefit of reporting?
@lostaccount, how do you suggest prospective students find this out when researching an undergrad or grad program? If the colleges are hiding them, and women are not supported when they report, how can a student know?
I do plan to suggest that my D be sure to try to get some one-on-one time with female grad students at any programs she might consider to ask how the department is for female grad students. But for undergrad, not sure how to access the info.
I wonder how the University factors in their exposure to a civil suit if it does happen again? It is now established that they know that he is has a history of this behavior, and are allowing him to stay on campus anyway. I would think the liability could be quite significant.
Intparent,google each school and look at its history. Is there a history of things being hidden and later revealed to be true? My impression is that schools support different climates. One school I know had a huge scandal about conduct that people inside the school knew about for years. Those who complained were marginalized. It was finally made public and investigated.n But the investigation was limited to only the departments already known to be involved. It did not extend to other areas where equally egregious conduct was occurring. Some who did speak up paid a big price for the corruption before it was made public.
This particular school endorses a “win at any cost” mentality that supported egregious conduct. After things become public they seem to put PR on over-drive. The initial scandal was followed by revelations about other things over a decade-but not all-some continues. A school where administrators support hiding something in one department is probably doing the same things or did the same in others. So just be wary of schools that have been the focus of corruption that involves hiding wrong doing. In other words-where the administration knows about what is happening and does nothing but punish those who open their mouth. Google the name of a school with key words like “investigation” or “scandal”. That is a start!
Huffington Post now reporting Marcy will resign:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/berkeley-professor-resigns-amidst-sexual-harassment-allegations_561e96a7e4b0c5a1ce6187c6
How does it get on a place where Google will find it? If it raises to the level of a lawsuit or there are criminal charges, then possibly. But the run of the mill complaint? Or more likely, the prof female students warn each other to avoid (or even other profs warn about) isn’t going to be known until the student is in the environment.
Employers typically do not publicize employee disciplinary matters.
Looks like there was some sort of probation-type punishment (as opposed to no punishment), but (like with any kind of probation-type situation) it is hard to tell whether it has any teeth if anything happens in the future, and (understandably) many will be suspicious that if whoever was giving the punishment was lenient this time, s/he may be lenient the next time as well.
On the other hand, the actual finding that Marcy was guilty did empower the victims and others to go public on the matter and be believed, as opposed to being seen as making accusations without evidence.
He has resigned, according to the NY TImes.
So now I guess the question is was his hand forced? Or like a petulant child did he say “well then I will take my ball and go play elsewhere?” Be interesting to see what institutions or organizations will risk affiliating themselves with him.
Perhaps he will write a book on “falling stars.”
Most of the professors in his department threw him over the side, and so, in a different letter, did a number of grad students in his department. It’s hard to imagine he could work in that department under those conditions.
This is a huge institutional failure over the years. Previous accusations kept getting swept under the rug. I hope that in the future, young science professors who are starting out their career harassing will get smacked into line by university disciplinary procedures before they amass a decades-long trail of women driven out of science.
PS, unsolicited touching from a professor to an undergraduate is never “massage.” It is groping. Massage is a consensual thing.
Who knows, maybe the neck massages were consensual? It’s not unrealistic to suggest he may have been led on by these women in some cases.
Young females tend to have a lot of leverage over older males in sexual harassment cases. I don’t believe that the victims were completely innocent in every situation. Nevertheless, he does not how to control himself around women and that is unacceptable.
Wow… just… wow. You are male, am I correct?
He can’t defend himself by saying his actions were consensual. That doesn’t work. He is forbidden from having sexual/romantic relationships with undergraduates. So even if the young women “led him on,” which I don’t believe, he had no business following them.
Lol, calm down… Nobody here knows, with absolute certainty, what went on behind the scenes. Silly me, I like to understand both sides of the story.
Regardless, I don’t agree with his actions. Even if these women did lead him on in certain situations, he should have used better judgment.
According to the NYT article, 2500 astronomers signed this petition. http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1q4oKqbMh4YplZkuBDs2VoUOL0xJQt-uVYwZ5-Fa_G0I/pubhtml I think that must have had some impact.
He also resigned from high profile $100 million project.
The only relevant fact that you need to understand is that there is a power inequality, therefore consent is impossible. It is truly important that you understand that.
@fractalmstr Even if those women did “lead him on,” the one and only appropriate response would have been to tell them he wasn’t interested in anything of the sort, and would like to teach his class. Period. It wouldn’t matter if they showed up to his lectures in the skimpiest outfits known to man - as their professor, it was morally wrong for Marcy to do what he did.
I also highly doubt that multiple students whose academic careers span a 10-year period are making this up because they enjoy the exposure, the scrutiny, and the inevitable attacks by troglodytes who think they’re a band of wicked temptresses looking to destroy a professor’s career because they have nothing else to do this weekend.
I shudder to imagine what the statistics say some of my female classmates are bound to endure, either at the hands of a fraction of a human being like Marcy, or in the company of those who are merely boorish misogynists.
Some one should make a public records act request to UCB for the investigative report in regards to Marcy. Perhaps one of the lawyers on this forum can do it. It is not privileged. Calif government code 6250 and marken vs santa monica unified school district 202 cal app 4th 1250. It would make for interesting reading