Pros and Cons of Transferring to Private School for 11th grade

Parents Forum
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<p>Thanks again for the dialogue. </p>

<p>It sounds like applying for 11th grade is as grueling as applying for college. I didn’t realize how much is involved. I wonder if it’s worth the distraction. She’s doing very well right now with a pretty tough load. </p>

<p>I’m not really worried about the competitive college stuff. I have CC and we’ve done it once, so who needs anybody else :-). She’ll get her education either way, she’ll achieve whatever she achieves and she’ll apply and go to an appropriate college. I’m confident that she can find a great school that will meet her educational objectives. We don’t do anything special “for college”. We discourage falling in love with a “dream school”. We don’t need a private college counselor. For older D, our school guidance counselor took care of business, like her secondary school report and was very nice and competent, but we did the strategy and college search ourselves, and D couldn’t be happier with the outcome. I’m feeling pretty good about how much I’ve learned from this board and other resoureces. Actually, I’d be turned off if the private schools thought the only reason she’d want to go there was to improve her college prospects. </p>

<p>I’m really concerned mainly with the appropriateness of the education. I am strongly opposed to wasting time and I know that out of necessity, our school district is much less concerned with that. Most of us really dedicate a certain amount of time to get an education and you hate to see that time wasted. That’s really the bottom line. </p>

<p>We’re going to have to pay a lot for college. I’m prepared for that. I see the value of private over public education for college. My cousin told me that by the time his son finishes his degree at his flagship public, the actual cost with summers and extra semesters will be comparable with what a private 4 year degree would have cost if you account for the opportunity costs of the salary from the first job. His son also isn’t doing that well and has trouble finding the help he needs. He regrets not paying for private school. He’s paying for his middle daughter and will likely pay for the younger daughter. </p>

<p>Before the budget cuts, I didn’t see the big difference between public and private, we had it all, but it’s not such an easy call right now. Looking forward to her senior year, at the public school, 3 of the 6 courses she’d most likely want to take won’t be offered. Will she be wasting her time, have lost opportunities. I’m not really sure. </p>

<p>I’m concerned about the cost. I mean if nothing goes wrong, and we both keep our jobs throughout, we can afford private school and college, but it wasn’t in the original plan, and I’d prefer not to drop the extra $75K. And then if something does go wrong, who knows. Those of you who point out how much enrichment and private tutoring that buys on top of a free public school education have a really good point that is not lost on me. </p>

<p>Great food for thought. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I would do it in a heartbeat if you can swing it and she can get in. It’s worth it. The academics will be stronger and, as was pointed out above, the college counseling will be far superior.</p>

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<p>I am familiar with several small academic private schools in California. They are generally very selective. The social scene is such that it takes freshmen much of the year to find their place. Very few students are accepted as sophomores, and generally they struggle to fit in. I am not aware of junior year acceptances – this in part because there are few vacancies, and also because finding one’s place in the school as a junior is very hard. The issue is not simply social, but also one of academic load. The academic load is generally higher (whether classes are called AP or not) than in most public schools, and it can easily overwhelm someone coming in as a junior. The freshman learn how to cope, and develop good time management skills by junior year.</p>

<p>Also the program at small private academic schools is carefully sequenced for the first two years, so it’s not clear how a new student coming in as a junior would find their place. And getting strong grades may prove to be difficult.</p>

<p>But no doubt there are successful transfers. Perhaps your D would be one of them.</p>

<p>Take care not to fall into the trap of applying to private schools with advertised vacancies. These often are not the strong academic schools. You’ll find them to be a poor replacement for your D’s public school.</p>

<p>I for one do not take the concerns of budgets, and the eminent collapse of the public schools too literally. Much is happening to prevent that from occurring. Reading between the lines your D’s school has strong academics. I would advise you to stay put.</p>

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<p>I have no personal experience of boarding schools. I went to a regular old Midwest public and my offspring to a NYC public magnet. That said, I know some people who have chosen boarding schools for their kids. One of my D’s closest friends in college was a day student at a day & boarding school in the Boston area. Her first year roommate went to a boarding school. </p>

<p>I don’t know if this will help at all…but my impression is that many students, especially males, don’t start boarding school until 10th grade. Moreover, some of the boarding and day schools have a PG year for high school grads. Some of the kids in them are jocks trying to improve their grades and scores so they can be recruited. Some are internationals trying to improve their English. Some are bright kids who have some gaps in their education. I mention this just because it’s my understanding that most of the boarding/day schools ARE flexible about kids taking courses out of sequence and are prepared to deal with students entering at every grade level. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, an acquaintance of mine has a son who was in boarding school. He wasn’t doing very well and they decided he should transfer and get a fresh start. His mom got on the phone and started calling. It’s my impression that it took a few weeks to arrange a transfer. </p>

<p>So, if I were you, I’d leave your options open. Pick up the phone. Call a few schools of possible interest. Ask your questions. If it sounds like any of them might work, go visit. </p>

<p>There’s no need to make a decision now. Just explore your options.</p>

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<p>I recommend leaving her in the public school, and saving your money for college. As others mentioned, you can supplement with summer programs and local college classes. It sounds like this year is going well. It is unlikely that the class offerings will change drastically in the next 2 years. Your daughter is happily settled in at her current high school. I don’t think it’s worth the risk that she might have social or academic adjustment issues in her junior year of high school. I also think that the application process will leave her burnt out for the college application process.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure what basis you have in thinking this. They’ve already cut 3 of the projected 6 classes she would take as a senior. Those AP classes are not running this year, and there is no reason for optimism about their return. Seniors are just out of luck. Basically academically talented seniors simply have to wait for college in order to make forward progress in a whole bunch of subjects or do independent studies through local colleges or online courses. Sometimes feasible, sometimes not. I’m not sure how they are coping, but it’s already gone way beyond what was imaginable even two years go. There are only 2 of the 4 classes that my older daughter took last year still being offered. This is NOW. </p>

<p>If the sales tax cut passes, and it looks like it will, what do you think they will cut. They will likely have to cut sports, art, music and drama, and the school will probably only be able to offer students 5 classes and will have to cut the graduation requirements. Much of this stuff has already been privatized with fees, but they are still in the current budget, so they will likely go. They will have to eliminate more sections so they make the classes bigger, increasing the minimum class size, and eliminating electives that can’t meet that minimum. Teachers will be laid off, some of whom may teach popular advanced classes, so even those classes are in jeopardy.</p>

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<p>We’ve moved a number of times over the years and my two kids have attended public schools as well as private high schools. </p>

<p>There tends to be an assumption that private schools have more resources at their disposal and that they can throw money at any situation. Compared to the public systems that may be true, my kids never had lab fees or uniform or athletic transportation charges and there was ever a hint of cutting art or music classes. But there are fewer educational options. The local public system has 12 AP offerings per year, my son’s private has 4. Furthermore, since there is only one AP section per subject, it’s not unusual for students to only be able to fit 3 of those 4 into their schedule. This is not a knock on the private school, it’s just an acknowledgment of the fact that private schools lack the one resource that truly drives options - a lot of students. So, while the private you enroll your daughter in will have strong classes - even the "regular’ sections will probably be more rigorous than the honors public equivalent - it may be a mistake to assume that they’ll have the breadth of courses available in the public system.</p>

<p>To expand on fogcity’s points, many of these privates also have deeply ingrained tracks and woe is you if you jump in mid-stream and they have to wedge your round peg into their square holes. The good privates will listen to your concerns and give you answers about schedules and track ahead of time. Make sure and understand if they offer the classes that your daughter wants, and if they’ll let her take them given that she hasn’t done the “groundwork” in their school (this was a huge issue with our older son).</p>

<p>Also, try and understand the differences in educational culture. My oldest transferred into a private as a sophomore. His math science background was more than sufficient but he was overwhelmed by the reading and writing demands of the new school. The kids who had been there freshman year were used to it, he wasn’t.</p>

<p>Finally, there is the social aspect. Your daughter is going to miss her friends and it’s a roll of the dice if she’ll find new friends to replace them at the new school. Depending on the school and activities she’s involved in, she might find the ingrained social circles and cliques to be a lot to deal with. If she were younger I’d suggest trying the private school, given that she’s going to be a junior I think you should explore the enrichment ideas people have proposed - on-line work, community college classes and independent studies are also good options.</p>

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<p>My daughter went the other direction – transferred from a top-shelf private school to a large public school in 11th grade. Her experience:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The public school was much more stratified, and more focused on AP classes, than the private school. She basically lost part of a year academically. This would not have been a problem at all going the other direction. If the private school doesn’t have AP classes (this one didn’t), that’s hardly a problem if the classes they have are good, and recognized as such by colleges.</p></li>
<li><p>She didn’t lose her old friends at all. Her old friendship group fell apart over pre-existing tensions about sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll – and also in part because she wasn’t there every day to hold it together, as she had been doing for a while – but her half of the group linked up with half of the next group over and everything was fine after a few months. It took her most of the year to find the friends she wanted at the new school. But now, 7 years on, her best high school friend was from the new school, not the old one.</p></li>
<li><p>She was pretty lonely at school for a few months. “I haven’t eaten lunch by myself since first grade!” In the long run, this built character, and gave her a lot of confidence in her ability to make friends and influence people. But there were some bad days along the way.</p></li>
<li><p>There was some culture shock. The range of opinion at the private school was about 4 cm wide, and although everyone talked the talk about diversity, no one was in fact diverse, not even the people with different skin colors and backgrounds. The public school was different. Had she gone the other direction (public - > private), she might well have come across as crass or gauche.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In your shoes, I would want to understand the counseling culture of the potential new school. Do they often accept 11th graders? Have they been successful on the college market?</p>

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<p>Everyone has made excellent points, but I just wanted to add my perspective on the boarding vs day issue. When I attended a boarding school that also had some day students, the day students were always comparative outsiders. Even day students who had been at the school for a number of years. The day students were fewer than 1/3 of the school, though, and the school was very small.</p>

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<p>@ op</p>

<p>I am a Mass resident whose town has gone to mandatory study halls in the HS, etc. My kids are/were day students at a rigorous boarding school nearby. Day student life varies dramatically depending on the school, so you need to check it out specifically at the particular school you are considering. I don’t know about private day schools, but boarding schools will generally accomodate whatever level class your D needs, and there is much less emphasis on the particular order or year that a class is taken. In addition, it is common for kids to come into BS at various years, and many actually repeat a year during the transition (helps with the academic shift). Finally, I suggest you check out the threads under Prep School Admissions. Lots of debate and discussion baout the benefits of Prep school, as well as advice and insight on the admissions process and particular schools.</p>

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<p>CRD</p>

<p>It sounds like the issues you have is:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You like the public school staff. Easy to work with, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>You hate wasted time.</p></li>
<li><p>Budget cuts are negatively impacting the course offerings.</p></li>
<li><p>D doesn’t like on-line options.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Do you have a local college nearby that she can attend part time? </p>

<p>Since the school has been easy to work with in the past, I am thinking that if you approach the GC now you may be able to work out a method to complete HS classes in a block (all a.m. or all p.m.) and then take courses at the college? Or could GC work with your family for “independent study” and “internship” options? </p>

<p>What are the teachers like? I assume the teachers of the APs being phased out remain at the school. Can they provide/guide to study materials for AP self study?</p>

<p>And for your own sanity, throw out all comparisons of your daughters’ educations.<br>
I assume you do not expect D2 to automatically attend the same college as D1 without exploring other options. Well, just come from that same paradigm replacing college with high school. Each will have an individual HS experience (even if it was not planned that way). If she stays at the public, perhps she’ll take electives D1 didn’t have time in her schedule to take.</p>

<p>And know, here in PA our district is going through the same thing.</p>

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<p>classicrockerdad, keep in mind that Mass does have a mandatory minimum funding level for its public schools. The state can cut funding to cities/towns, but towns are legally mandated to spend a minimum amount per student for education, called a foundation spending level. If their school budget goes below that, the state can step in and force the spending. Foundation budgets vary based on income levels, percentage of low-income students, and other factors. Towns here are not legally required to have a library, a fire department or even a police department, but they are required to have a public school and spend a minimum amount on it.</p>

<p>If you’re in one of the top districts in the state, it’s likely that your district is well above foundation. Our hs is in the top 25% of the state based on test scores, but we are barely above the foundation spending level - in fact, we got a warning from the DOE because we’re within 1-2% of the minimum. Which basically means things in our town’s schools can’t get cut too much further - no matter what happens with the sales tax. We may not have a library or a Senior Center or adequate police or fire coverage, but we WILL have schools that will spend very close to what we are spending now. (Foundation spending for FY’11 for our town is $8496/student, which I found in a “listing by district” link at the bottom of this document):</p>

<p>[FY11</a> The Massachusetts Foundation Budget](<a href=“http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yNJ2jN_z_AYJ:finance1.doe.mass.edu/chapter70/chapter_cal.doc+massachusetts+foundation+education&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us]FY11”>http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yNJ2jN_z_AYJ:finance1.doe.mass.edu/chapter70/chapter_cal.doc+massachusetts+foundation+education&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)</p>

<p>Also the state has rules about Time in Learning - there is a minimum number of hours all students must spend in class each year. Passing in the halls and lunch don’t count, neither do study halls (although some high-achieving districts get away with study halls and because they’re high achieving, the DOE looks the other way). </p>

<p>Believe me, I can understand the fear. I have frankly advised parents of 8th graders to look into private school. But with only 2 years left, and only $30k private schools that you feel comfortable with…</p>

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<p>classicrockerdad - we too live in Mass. I have a senior this year that is in a very well regarded public HS and a sophmore that I put in Catholic school in her freshman year. With the budget cuts, my youngest daughter’s classes were going to be large 25-30 kids. The Catholic school actually has about 30% non-catholics that attend and it’s mission/mantra is “serve the unserved.” Both kids are receiving very different but excellent educations. My Catholic school kid has fewer choices in terms of what she can take but the emphasis on the classics, particluarly in literature and languages, is putting her far ahead of her public school counterparts in terms of reading comprehension and writing. My public school kid has had the opportunity to take classes such as anatomy and physiology, varied fine art courses as well as more APs than are offered at the Catholic school. Both are very involved in their communities but the Catholic schools kid has already racked up more community service hours than the public kids. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, they are both interested in attending similar colleges, they have similar GPAs, but the Catholic D’s test scores are much higher in reading/writing and she will have tons of communtiy service hours-400+. So, we shall wait and see if there really is an advantage…</p>

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<p>At a lot of private schools, the science sequence is Physics, Chemistry, Biology, so your daughter shouldn’t be out of sequence there! If you are in Western Mass, send me a pm.</p>

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<p>Thanks everybody. Lots of food for thought. After doing some research, and knocking off schools that don’t seem to take day students for 11th grade, and schools that don’t have the desired classes, I’m starting to think that the probability of D2 even getting in somewhere appropriate for 11th grade is very small, especially given that her 9th grade grades weren’t stellar. I’m thinking that this is perhaps not worth the effort, which is much greater than I imagined. I’m still mulling it over. </p>

<p>Longhaul, you nailed it, except that I wasn’t comparing D1 and D2, I was comparing the opportunities available to each of them and pointing out how much has deteriorated in a very short period of time.</p>

<p>Lafalum, the foundation budgets are not sufficient to address the needs of the more advanced kids, but that is where the local tea party folks want to get down to. As long as their taxes go down, they don’t care how many kids are screwed or how competitive our country is. These are the same people that put flags out. Frankly, I think that the foundation budgets, like school rankings, and such are irrelevant and do more harm then good when you look at facts on the ground.</p>

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<p>CRD</p>

<p>I wasn’t implying you are comparing kids – I’ve read enough posts to know that isn’t your make-up. Just suggesting for your stress level, try to stop comparing opportunities. I’m someone who has been there – It will drive you insane and you simply have no control of the situation.</p>

<p>The evaulations you are doing now - checking out other schools, considering other methods to gain “different” opportunities - are pro-active. But once you have gathered all your info and made a family decision, be satisfied that you have done all possible and don’t look back.</p>

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<p>Have you talked to some other parents in your D’s academic peer group? What are they thinking of doing? It strikes me that if you’re considering staying in the public school and supplementing with local college and/or online classes, your D will be happier and more successful if she does it with a friend or small group of friends. My S took AP physics his senior year, and while the educational value was excellent, he felt isolated and unmotivated. Doing it with even one other person would have made it a much better experience, and being able to do it at school during a study hall period would have been even better. </p>

<p>As for going to a local college or university, it was overall a good experience for my S but wreaked havoc with his hs schedule. MV Calc was offered only during the early morning at our CC, right when all the AP and honors science classes were offered at the hs, so it was a choice between advanced math and advanced science (hence the online physics class). Take a look not just at what your CC offers but when.</p>

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<p>PM’ed you about the option of supplementing the high school curriculum with online courses, including AP’s, which the local school should accept for credit. They cost about $400. Our school even joined an online program so that 25 students can take online classes for free (funded by an educational foundation). This has helped keep a variety of classes available despite budget cuts.</p>

<p>Another idea that can work in MA is for you to organize some parents and concerned community members and go for a tax override in your town. I did this last spring. It was a lot of work but kind of inspiring to work together, and we got more than $500,000 for our schools, thereby saving the AP classes. PM me if you want to know more about how to do this.</p>

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<p>Our hs allows kids to take AP and other advanced classes online, via “virtual high school” (not sure if that’s the exact name). The students report to the library during the class period assigned for that class, and take the online class then. S had a friend who took advanced calculus this way.</p>

<p>I’m not supporting the gutting of the school budget in any way, or saying that the “foundation budget” is in any way adequate. But if the sales tax cut does pass, the subsequent cuts to education might not be as deep as one might fear, due to foundation budgets. We might not have cops or firefighters or libraries, though…</p>

<p>S is home from college this weekend. I sent him to the Town Clerk to get an absentee ballot. So far there’s at least one NO vote on cutting the sales tax in half!</p>

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<p>It looks like it’s too late to apply to Mass Academy, but it’s possibly worth an investigation. ([Massachusetts</a> Academy of Math & Science at WPI - Welcome](<a href=“http://www.massacademy.org/]Massachusetts”>http://www.massacademy.org/))</p>