<p>Certainly for two candidates who are equal in every way except SAT scores, the one with a higher score probably has a better chance of being admitted into an elite school. However, as has been said time and time again, great GPA’s and SAT scores aren’t enough as is being president of 6 clubs isn’t enough. They aren’t in the business of rewarding students for past performance but for future promise. They want students who will make the biggest positive impact on society possible. This builds up their prestige and endowments. Because a student has been pushed mercilessly by his or her parents to achieve great scores is pretty meaningless later in life when that pressure is gone and they have to achieve on their own. Frequently schools can ascertain which students have inner drive and passion.</p>
<p>OP here. The classic candidate I was envisioning for a private Asian U would be the kind of kid I see writing often on these threads, “I’m a second-gen Asian-American student with high stats (2020), a 4.0 GPA who plays the violin and tennis.” Everyone writes back saying s/he has nothing unusual to recommend him; must compete with all the other Asians at Ivy League or top LAC’s; so fuggetaboutit.</p>
<p>The Jewish population in the US is at 4% but on many top LAC and university campuses runs 20-30%; at Brandeis 50-60%.</p>
<p>I just thought: If a lot of reasonably well-qualified Asian students are getting turned away from fine private schools, because they already have “enough Asians” why not raise funds to start a very good university one of one’s own and set the rules? It wouldn’t be the right fit for every Asian student, just as there are many Jewish students who don’t care to apply to Brandeis. or AfAm’s who’d prefer not to apply HBC. </p>
<p>But for others it could be an option, and perhaps refreshing to apply where it’s no detriment to be both academically talented and Asian. </p>
<p>The great number of Asian students at several California universities is relevant to instate Asian students but not so much for OOS-ers. OOS’ers are staring down 5x the tuition and competing for the fewer spots left open for any OOS applicants. But it is good for Californians, no doubt. (envy, envy…)</p>
<p>It could be that I’m not expressing my idea well, because to me it seems a rather facile, obvious thought; an alternative just waiting to be created.</p>
<p>If the most important, defining characteristic of a person is their race then I can see that colleges wouldn’t want “too many” Asians. But I thought America has moved beyond that… grouping people by such an arbitrary characteristic as race sounds like racism to me. </p>
<p>Besides, we’re okay with 40-60% whites… so why not 40-60% Asians, if they’ve deserved it? We can’t prove that Asians are discriminated against, but I don’t see many colleges trying race-blind admissions to see ><.</p>
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Doesn’t this really just come down to a Uni that doesn’t decide that there are ‘too many Asians’ (since there are so many with very good stats) - i.e. one that doesn’t factor in the race - like the UCs?</p>
<p>p3t:</p>
<p>I am sure that Asians are admitted to many many top universities so that there is not need to have a separate university to take in those who are qualified but still rejected at top universities. Take the case of the young Indian student who’s been the subject of a recent thread. He got rejected by Harvard, but gosh darn it, he got admitted to Caltech and Duke. That’s not being doomed to attending community college or some 4th tier university!
Or take the case of Jian Li who did not get into Princeton and considered suing. He got into Yale, for heaven’s sake! I strongly suspect that this is a case of “if you build it, then won’t come.” That’s because there is this rampant Ivy or bust mentality.</p>
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<p>Why is that the Jewish population at these schools are so much higher than their actual population?</p>
<p>Since the Asian student populations at top schools are around 18%, are you saying that Jewish students are more qualified? If it’s OK to have Jewish populations at 30%, why not Asians at 30% also(I’m talking about Ivies) ?</p>
<p>Someone on another thread recently cited much higher statistics than any 18% (at Elites). I’m sure someone will find it with a search.</p>
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<p>Because they are pseudoscientific identifications, not scientifically rigourous ones. </p>
<p>What is the biological definition of an Asian? Perhaps you can cite some genetic markers?</p>
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<p>Students self-identify their race, so they are whatever race they say they are.</p>
<p>Just going back to the OP, but limiting my answer to the most ambitious of the Asian students, who assume they are striving for very professional positions in the work world, etc., I think it’s clear why there is no <em>U.S</em> Asian U.: These families want an edge. They’re not going to get an edge necessarily in an admissions pool crowded with even more applicants like themselves (in background, in goals, etc.) than what they now experience at more diverse elite institutions.</p>
<p>If they didn’t feel they needed to capitalize on an edge, they (some of them) might have enrolled in U’s in their own countries. I am sure there are many who for some statistical reason do not “qualify” for admission in their own country, but OTOH are highly qualified for admission here, given more factors that U.S. U’s consider, along with less quantitative rigidity here.</p>
<p>The analogy is just not there. The prejudice Jewish people felt back then is so much worse than whatever there is today for Asians.
Also one of the Asian parents’ goals of getting their kids into top colleges is to facilitate assimilation. There is no interest in that community to insulate themselves.
I have been paying attention to my older kids’ classmates and their recent admissions. Among a couple dozens of Asian kids, I haven’t seen any surprises, mostly are very well placed, including mine.
One area of admissions that bugs me is in the treatment of legacy and kids from family of influences, but that’s a different subject.<br>
BTW, I’m Asian.</p>
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<p>Just wait a generation. </p>
<p>The legacy preference may have been set up at least in part to keep the numbers of Jewish kids down. Now, vast numbers of the legacies are Jewish. In another generation, vast numbers of the legacies will be Asian American.</p>
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<p>For the same reason that the Asian population is higher. Both Asians and Jews, in general, place a high value on education. Parents in both of these groups encourage their children to achieve academically, make efforts to help them if they are struggling in school, and try to make college financially possible for their kids. Peers from the same ethnic groups do not ostracize Asian or Jewish kids who are academically successful. These things are not necessarily true in other segments of the U.S. population. So it stands to reason that the proportion of Asian or Jewish kids who come out of high school qualified to go to top colleges would be higher than the proportion of kids from other ethnic groups who come out of high school similarly qualified.</p>
<p>I realize that I am overgeneralizing a bit here. Certainly, there are segments of both the Jewish and Asian American populations for which the statements I have made do not apply. But for the vast majority, they do.</p>
<p>Oops, I ran out of time to edit the other post.</p>
<p>If you want evidence of how much Asians and Jews value academics, just take a look at the ethnic composition of public academic magnet schools and compare them to the ethnic composition of the areas that they draw from.</p>
<p>Going to a magnet school is often inconvenient. It usually involves much longer travel back and forth to school than would be necessary for a student attending the neighborhood high school. And magnet programs usually involve greater amounts of academic work than standard high school programs do. The extra study time plus extra travel time really eats into a kid’s day. Moreover, students who go to magnet schools often have to leave behind their friends from middle school, most of whom will attend the neighborhood high school. Kids and parents who choose to apply to magnet schools, and who attend them if they are admitted, tend to be those who value rigorous academics above convenience and social factors. (They also tend to be kids from families for whom private school would be a financial burden, but that’s another story.)</p>
<p>Guess who dominates a lot of magnet programs? Asians and Jews.</p>
<p>Marian: My issue with legacy is not related to ethnicity, rather there are cases that we know and are way beyond the usual. That calls into question of the integrity of the system. Luckily they seemed to be very isolated, at least to our knowledge. Obviously the kids who lost a spot because of that may feel very differently.</p>
<p>Marian: Anecdotally, in my children’s summer programs at an elite college, everyone there is either Asian or Jewish, it seems.</p>
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<p>Only a bit?</p>
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<p>All legacies do not magically receive a preferential status. Schools expect their alumni to be active, supportive, and generous with their time and … money. </p>
<p>That does not seem to marry well with notions of entitlement and lack of altruism.</p>
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<p>Maybe more than a bit, Xiggi.</p>
<p>But let me tell you a story. </p>
<p>I was in the hospital at the time that my daughter received an ED acceptance to an Ivy League college that’s a seven-hour drive from home. When my daughter called to tell me about her acceptance, I mentioned it to my hospital roommate.</p>
<p>My roommate asked me what college it was and where it was located. She was absolutely mystified about why my daughter would want to go to a college so far from home when there’s a perfectly good community college nearby, as well as four-year state colleges that you can transfer to if a two-year degree isn’t enough for you. To her, it seemed ludicrous that a young person would do what my daughter was doing. In fact, she said to me several times that my daughter sounded like a very peculiar girl. </p>
<p>Does anyone reading this story think that my roommate was either Jewish or Asian? I doubt it.</p>
<p>In fact, she was a white, Christian woman from a country background who had never finished high school and who had many family members who had not finished high school, all of whom seemed to have reasonably satisfactory lives. Education simply wasn’t a priority for her or her family. I think there are many families of various ethnicities in this country who share her views – but that the proportion of such people is higher in some groups than in others. Jews and Asians are among the groups in which the proportion of people with such attitudes is low. That’s all I was really trying to say.</p>
<p>Upper midwest universities are getting large numbers of Hmong as many were relocated there. The UW is starting an Hmong Studies program, Mr Mini. You might update your records.</p>
<p>[Diversity</a> forum brings Hmong history to forefront (Oct. 3, 2007)](<a href=“http://www.news.wisc.edu/14244]Diversity”>Diversity forum brings Hmong history to forefront)</p>
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<p>To be fair, most people don’t meet people of these ethnic groups in society in general, let alone in huge numbers at colleges.</p>
<p>BTW, you mentioned being Indian, so I’m curious if you know: how many Dalits actually make it out of India as emigrants, and do many go on to universities abroad such as in the US? I know this is the lowest caste (formerly “untouchables”), so I’d imagine they have a harder time having the means to leave India.</p>