<p>It’s also safe to say that you can likely count the number of Hmong, Mien, or upland Lao students at any of these schools admitted each year on one hand (and, in some cases, have several fingers left over).</p>
<p>“there is plenty of evidence that Asians face a higher test bar than any other group.”</p>
<p>No, there is not. </p>
<p>(1) There is plenty of evidence that Asian families, both because of their own cultural practices & biases, & because of better/earlier mathematics (in particular) training, place a premium on high scores. Overall, they favor a concentration on score efforts more than non-Asian groups do.</p>
<p>(2) There is evidence (it’s published; it’s been on CC over the last couple of years or so) that, again, the <em>results</em> of such emphases within the families,-- combined with discipline and practice of test-taking since toddlerhood – have produced higher scores among college-admitted Asian students at many (probably most) U’s. </p>
<p>There’s not a whit of evidence of “a higher bar.” Further, there is evidence of <em>both</em> Caucasian and East Asian students who are in the 2400 score range being rejected every year by Elites.</p>
<p>There were 25 Hmong students at UCLA in 2005. Thats 5 hands-ful. [UCLA</a> Center for Southeast Asian Studies :: UCLA Hmong Students “Giving Voice to Hmong American Experiences”](<a href=“Home .::. UCLA Center for Southeast Asian Studies”>Home .::. UCLA Center for Southeast Asian Studies)</p>
<p>“If it turns out to become 50-60 percent Asian, as Brandeis is that percentage Jewish, then it will appeal to some and lack appeal to some of Asian heritage.”</p>
<p>And it does appeal to some, not appeal to others. Evidence is UC Berkeley’s appeal (yes, for many Asians, no for many others; some Asian students are not fond of the imbalance of 47% in the freshman class recently, while others tolerate a reduced undergrad diversity because they & their families value the education and the name enough; it overrides).</p>
<p>“don’t believe that every last family of Asian heritage agrees on the value of assimilation, any more than Jewish families do. Some enjoy it, some don’t.”
^^ I complete agree with this statement. Some Asian families are happy to maintain an insularity & don’t feel particularly compelled to accept American cultural norms.</p>
<p>There were 25 Hmong students at UCLA in 2005. Thats 5 hands-ful. UCLA Center for Southeast Asian Studies :: UCLA Hmong Students “Giving Voice to Hmong American Experiences”.</p>
<p>So divide 'em by four (as I wrote - “admitted each year”) and I’m pretty darn close (and the association includes graduate students). Now try all those “privates”. (You will have many extra fingers.)</p>
<p>There were at least 45 Lao students at UCB in 2006. That’s 9 hands-ful.[LASR</a> - About](<a href=“http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lasr/about.html]LASR”>http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lasr/about.html)</p>
<p>There are 40,000 Iu-Mien peoples in the U.S.[SEAAdoc/Read/Ethnic</a> Groups](<a href=“http://seaadoc.lib.uci.edu/read/ethnic_hmong3.html]SEAAdoc/Read/Ethnic”>SEAAdoc/Read/Ethnic Groups)</p>
<p>Cal State Chico has at least 50 Mien students. [Club</a> Mien, Chico](<a href=“http://www.clubmien.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=3]Club”>http://www.clubmien.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=3)</p>
<p>Overheard at Disneyland Park: “My daughter didnot get into Berkley!! There are too many Chinese there! They are taking over Berkley, it isn’t fair!” This was an asian woman talking. When asked her ethnicity, she replied Japanese, all the while cursing the Chinese for taking over the UC’s. Just mentioning it.</p>
<p>May be, not directly relevant to the topic,but insightful, nevertheless:</p>
<p>[Getting</a> In: The New Yorker](<a href=“http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlarge]Getting”>Getting In | The New Yorker)</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/505209-india-vs-china.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/505209-india-vs-china.html</a></p>
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<p>Actually, my <em>guess</em> is that if it’s down between someone with a 2400 and someone with a score slightly less, the school is more likely to go with the slightly less score (as far as percentage with that score accepted with other factors being similar) just so they can tell the media “This year, we had to reject X number/percentage of applicants with a 2400 SAT” and make themselves out to be just so prestigious. I think applicants could be costing themselves some admissions by trying to look “perfect” for that reason and also that some people (rightly or wrongly) perceive the perfect scorers as being perfectionists or pressured by parents and have a higher mental health services need and perhaps a higher suicide risk, neither of which schools particularly wish to have.</p>
<p>One of the links on post 129 merely directs readers to a CC thread re: international students. Not a “reference” whatsoever.</p>
<p>Post 130 is pure conjecture, not information.</p>
<p>A few thoughts:
- Somebody mentioned curriculum as a factor that could limit the number of Asians. I suppose that if a college seeks variety in anticipated majors, this could have this effect–assuming that the stereotypes about Asian major choices are accurate. But there could be an even more Asian-limiting effect if the school feels that it needs to have ethnic diversity within each major.
- I wonder what the tipping point for “too many Asians” might be (defining the tipping point as that at which people of other ethnicities are discouraged from attending). I think it’s pretty clear that by this standard, Brigham Young (as an example) has “too many Mormons,” and what I have heard some students say suggests that Brandeis has “too many Jews.” Some of the Catholic schools probably have “too many Catholics.” HBCs probably have “too many blacks” for very many non-blacks to want to apply there. Obviously, for all these schools this is probably not an issue because part of their reason for existence is to serve those groups–but it’s clearly a barrier to other people applying. I suspect that if a school was majority Asian, and particularly if the sciences were predominantly Asian students, that probably would discourage non-Asian students from applying there.</p>
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<p>I did, but curriculum was not meant to be “future majors” but more curriculum vitae … as in past activitities or r</p>
<p>Then I wonder whether projected major really might be having a limiting effect on Asian applicants. My observation, which is admittedly anecdotal, is that a majority of high-achieving Asian students in the U.S. would identify projected majors in the sciences. If this is the case, it is obviously going to have an impact at a school with numerous non-science majors.</p>
<p>[Hmong</a> Minnesota Student Association : Browse Groups : Student Groups : SUA](<a href=“Campus Home - CampusGroups”>Campus Home - CampusGroups)
[University</a> of Wisconsin - Milwaukee’s Hmong Students Association](<a href=“http://www.uwm.edu/StudentOrg/HSA/index3.html]University”>http://www.uwm.edu/StudentOrg/HSA/index3.html)
[UW-Eau</a> Claire - Hmong Student Association](<a href=“http://www.uwec.edu/hsa/]UW-Eau”>http://www.uwec.edu/hsa/)
[Welcome</a> to the HASA Website!](<a href=“http://hasa.rso.wisc.edu/]Welcome”>http://hasa.rso.wisc.edu/)
[Hmong</a> Student Union](<a href=“http://www.uwosh.edu/hsu/]Hmong”>http://www.uwosh.edu/hsu/)
[Hmong</a> Stout Student Organization](<a href=“http://www.uwstout.edu/student/hsso/]Hmong”>http://www.uwstout.edu/student/hsso/)</p>
<p>"I did, but curriculum was not meant to be “future majors” but more curriculum vitae … as in past activitities or r</p>
<p>
HBCs offer scholarships to kids who aren’t black. If there is a barrier, it is one of the non-black applicant’s own creation. I’m sure there are potential applicants to Brandeis or many Catholic colleges who may feel these schools have too many Jews or Catholics. But again, that’s a perception the applicant holds; gentiles or non-Catholics will have no problem gaining admission because of their religion or ethnicity.</p>
<p>Xiggi was just speculating the first time the “curriculum” point came up, I think. But it’s certainly my observation that high-achieving Asian students seem to have more common ECs and interests than high-achieving white students. There really are a lot of violin-playing science-fair-competing tennis-playing Asian students. It’s certainly a stereotype, but I also think it’s a reality based on culture. If there is truth to this observation, what are adcoms doing about it? What should they do about it?</p>
<p>“If there is a barrier, it is one of the non-black applicant’s own creation.”</p>
<p>That’s the kind of barrier I mean–something that makes that applicants hesitate to apply. That’s why HBC’s offer those scholarships, after all. My point is that some schools may take steps to prevent their school from becoming “too many” of something, if they think that would discourage a broader subset of students from applying. An obvious example is maintaining gender balance. The question that’s hard to answer is whether any school is actually doing this to prevent too many Asians.</p>
<p>“My point is that some schools may take steps to prevent their school from becoming “too many” of something, if they think that would discourage a broader subset of students from applying.”</p>
<p>By definition, desiring a diverse campus - whether it’s diversity of race, socioeconomic status, interests (oboe players and viola players), or potential majors (science majors and humanities majors) MEANS that the school is taking steps not to become “too many” of something. </p>
<p>Golf is a stereotypical rich white kid sport and basketball is a stereotypical inner-city sport. If a college has 3 slots open and there are 2 white golfers and 1 black basketball player (all otherwise equally qualified), and the school admits 1 white golfer and 1 black basketball player because they have a desire to have a class with a diversity of sporting interests, are they discriminating against whites? Or are they discriminating against candidates who look *alike to one another?</p>
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<p>Hunt, that is a very good point.</p>