The problem with CDC recommendations re the HPV vaccine is that they assume that parents are idiots and young women are all having sex at 13. I know they pick the worst-case scenario for public health reasons, but it’s annoying to be subjected to pressure by pediatricians who assume that you, as a parent, don’t know what your child is doing and don’t care.
We got a hard sell from our D’s pediatrician on the HPV vaccine when she was about 12. We did eventually have her vaccinated but we resented the assumption that our cultural practices and childrearing attentions follow the lowest common denominator.
The whole point is to get it before you’re exposed. It takes your body a while to build up antibodies. It has absolutely ZERO to do with your parenting abilities. No one assumes you’re going to let your kid go play with rusty nails and yet we still get tetanus shots.
Oh, and by the way, as someone who was sexually assaulted when I was in middle school, remember that consensual sex isn’t the only way to be exposed.
You get your kid vaccinated against future exposures. Whether that exposure is in a month or 10 years, it doesn’t matter.
Of course I don’t know what D will be exposed to, which is why I decided to get her the vaccine. However, it had just come out and we were subjected to a very heavy sell. And yes, I do think doctors assume that parents are idiots. I have long accepted this and factored it into my interactions with medical professionals.
Hep B was pushed on newborns due to the slim chance that they might be breastfed by a mother who was also an IV drug abuser. We had children on both sides of the age protocol and it was just odd how the younger one “needed” the vaccine and the older ones didn’t! When the vaccine first was given to babies, it was before congress had passed a law prohibiting what were called “drive through deliveries” where mother and baby only stayed in the hospital for a few hours after birth or insurance coverage would run out.
Our pediatrician explained that newborns are a “captive population” in the hospital and that some won’t come back for a 2 month or 4 month visit so the government decided to vaccinate at birth. She was angry about it.
Yes, CDC recommendations are always driven by public health considerations that do not take into account individual variations in parent behavior. As I said, worst-case scenario, and attempts to “parent-proof” the process.
Sounds like if our sons are > 26 years old, not recommended to get HPV shots, if they haven’t gotten them, correct? We encouraged S to get vaccinated but I doubt he did and he’s now > 26.
I don’t believe there have been many (if any) intimate relationships between S and anyone thus far. I’d be willing to pay whatever the out of pocket costs are, especially if it protects him and future partners/spouse. Will try to talk with him about it–tough when he lives 5000 miles away. Maybe D and nieces will have more success talking about it, since they were vaccinated.
@njsue:
You won’t get any arguments from me the way some doctors treat parents or patients in general, there is a level of arrogance there at times that is staggering. On the other hand, I have to agree with @romanigypsyeyes , the issue with vaccinating with HPV has nothing to do with parenting or cultural skills/background or whatnot, the reason to get vaccinated at 12 is because that allows the body to build up antibodies for the later years when kids may become exposed to it, whether it is 16 or 18. The doctor and those recommending are giving the hard sell because they know what the papiloma virus does to people and they want everyone to get the immunization so hopefully no one will go through it, no different than a polio vaccine or tetanus, how the virus is acquired is meaningless if it can be prevented.
Your daughter may very well be careful and in the end, didn’t need it, but the idea of immunizations is to basically make it so in case someone does slip up, is exposed to the HPV virus, whether they are likely to have unprotected sex or do something stupid or are likely to make good choices (and even otherwise good kids and make bad choices, slip up). I kind of wish people would get over the hangups with diseases that are transmitted sexually (gonna be interesting to see if anyone objects to a zika vaccine, if they have one, given that it is both mosquito born and an STD as well), whether it is transmitted sexually, by skin touch or airborne, by a mosquito, by a rusty nail or having a cut around horse manure, disease is disease and vaccines are a lot more reliable than trying to avoid disease alone, however it is spread.
@motherofdragons:
I am not the government, and given how stupid the anti vaccination people generally are and how reason doesn’t work with them, me calling them space cadets simply reflects the fact that I have little respect for them, normally I would be live and let live but they are through their stupidity not only hurting their own kids, but others in the community as well. The law has another name for parents who refuse to immunize their children and it is equally as demeaning, it is known as being legally negligent and a threat to the community. There is a time and place to respect someone’s beliefs, there is another to drop the gloves and call it what it is. If a nitwit like Jenny McCarthy or Jim Carrey want to spread the gospel of vaccinations are bad and evil I am going to call them on it, because that isn’t just personal belief, that is actively encouraging others to do something stupid and causing more problems.
You won’t find any argument from me that doctors are often arrogant and flippant.
But them pushing the vaccine is them wanting to prevent your child from going through cancer in the future. To be honest, I support them being as rude and pushy as possible to get parents to protect their kids against cancer.
Then again, I think it should be law that everyone except those who have medical excuses need to get vaccinated.
I mean, when you have a vaccine that can protect your child from a debilitating, excruciating, and deadly illness and a parent’s response is “Nah. She’s fine.” I don’t blame the doctors in the least…
There are some vaccines that are optional, for example when our son was young, they had the hep b vaccine. The doctor explained about hep b, that it is uncommon (or was) where we live, its side effects, and that because of that he considered it optional, unless we planned on going places where it was more common (my son was innoculated for it when he travelled to China I believe). With something like HPV, assuming that your kid will be safe from it is only slightly better than not getting them the smallpox or polio immunizations,it is playing statistical russian roulette because HPV can be prevented by being a ‘moral person’ (ie not having sex before marriage) or “smart person”(not having unprotected sex without knowing your partner is monogamous and clear of it), it would be like if they come up with a vaccine against AIDS that works, not getting the kids innoculated against it because ‘only stupid people get AIDS’ (and yes, folks, I have heard that said). Problem is as we talk about on other threads, accidents happen, mistakes happen (or worse), and not getting an HPV vaccine is like not getting a smallpox vaccine because “smallpox has been eradicated, so my kid will be fine” (It might be unlikely, but with world travel and the like, there are smallpox carriers out there, even now).
I think HPV is an interesting vaccine only because there are hundreds of types of HPV and most resolve on their own. The shots are for a few types of HPV specifically. I’m happy that it was available when my last boy came along and happy he was able to make the decision on his own, but I’m not losing sleep because the older two did not get the shots. Of course young adult males previously not vaccinated can talk to their own doctor but this is what the American Cancer Society says for men over the age of 26 (which my two olders are). I’m still going to ask both of them next time I talk to them if they got the shots of not.
Males over the age of 26 can get the series if they desire, but it is generally not covered by insurance after age 26.
I think the comment about babies right after birth being a captive audience is correct. The chance of my baby (and again my two olders were before Hep B was routinely administered) catching Hep B was miniscule or less than miniscule so waiting until he was a few years older made total sense and then the other two got them at the same time. They also got the “Hep A” vaccine during that time period.
I just realized that my son’s girlfriend of almost 9 years (24) has probably not had the shot, for reasons which are TMI. My son (26) has had the complete series. I am certain that neither has had sex with anyone else. I am going to speak to my son about having her get the shots, perhaps at Planned Parenthood. If there is a reasonable co-pay, I will offer to cover it.
As far as the arrogance of doctors, I have one anecdote, which arose in the context of immunizations. When my D was about 5 months old, we decided to try a doctor closer to home. One of H’s doctor friends recommended a particular pediatrician. I spoke with the doctor about the spacing and timing of the shots for both my D and my S, who is 14 months older. He literally pooh poohed me and said: “Now don’t you worry your pretty head about ihis, little mama, I will decide when they get their shots.” I can still feel H’s hand pushing my leg back down into the chair and hear his voice in my head telling me to calm down. I looked at the doctor and said I am NOT your mama and you may refer to me as Mrs. X, Esquire. As we left the office, the nurse said to me, when do you want your next appointment to be? I said never and l walked out the door. We never went back.
Yes, being patronized by a doctor or other healthcare provider is the surest way to lose me as a patient permanently. I remember consulting with a surgeon my sister praised. He took my list of questions and medical summary that I had prepared for the visit, folded it up and patted me and said for me not to worry myself about anything. He then wrote I was refusing surgery, against medical advice.
I found a surgeon (based on a referral from a friend who had recently had similar breast lump biopsy) who was grateful for my summary and happy to discuss all my questions and concerns. She also allowed me to have conscious sedation and listen to a CD during the procedure. She made the most microscopic stitches and there was no scarring. I came thru surgery beautifully, with no pain.
@HImom - I am glad that you came your surgery with no problems.
Sometimes, one person’s beloved doctor is another person’s nightmare. Years ago, when I was pregnant for the first time and having some pain, I went to the ob-gyn my best friend raved about. He examined me, told me I was fine and that I should let him do the worrying. I went home and miscarried later that evening. Needless to say, when I became pregnant again, I did NOT return to him for my care.
I had a minor procedure recently. My surgeon has zero bedside manner (think Dr. Romano from ER, right down to the bald head) but he got me cured. I am willing to put up with less bedside manner in a doctor I will only see once or twice than in a doctor I want to have a continuing relationship with.
I have some important health issues that need to be considered in a surgery and have had severe nausea in prior surgeries, which is why I spent the time writing out the summary and questions. I felt it was extremely disrespectful and arrogant to make light of the summary and list of questions, especially as I had spent a considerable amount of time and effort on both.
The surgeon I did use said I did all the work for her, as she needed to know the info I had put on the summary. She was also happy to discuss the questions I had, which were short and concise, directly related to the pending surgery.
I don’t have time or energy for arrogant providers who want to patronize me and won’t answer my questions and work with me and my other providers.
I couldn’t find any pharmacies that administer the Gardasil vaccine.
My daughter’s first dose was the old vaccine and the second two doses were the Gardasil 9.