I was involved at one time in working with puppy mill rescues. The saddest thing I ever saw was a dog who did not walk completely upright because he’d never walked outside a caged area with a low ceiling. Our cavalier was a rescue dog, but not from a puppy mill. Please rescue a pup. And love them a lot.
Go for it.
Think whether you can afford training and medical care, then go look those pups over.
Just anecdotally, the puppy mill stories I have heard had happy endings. It wasn’t always easy, training was required, but the dogs learned how to behave well and be good companions.
Our local dog shelter only seems to have pit bulls and pit mixes, typically found loose on the street or tied up to a tree (urban environment). Not what I’m ready to take on. I’ve looked at the online listings at overstockdotcom and shelters within 50 miles of me seem to be mostly dogs the south. I get the feeling these are dogs rescued from mills or bad breeding situations. Local rescue groups arrange transport of these dogs to homes hundreds of miles away, sometimes for as much as $500 in adoption fees. Is this just the way things are done?
We got our beagle from a breed rescue group 11 years ago. I know that she had at least 2 homes prior to us but not whether she was puppy mill bred. I will be honest and tell you that she is very quirky. Not terribly affectionate and she has some separation anxiety. OTOH she is 14 years old and in great health. She loves to go on long walks and literally runs up stairs.
Our neighbor’s rescued pit mix was like that. The sweetest dog you could hope to see with the family, but extremely aggressive with anyone he considered a threat, and unfortunately what he considered a threat could not always be predicted. One day I saw the dog loose. Knowing the owners never left him alone outside I tried to call the dog but he wouldn’t come, so I went to the door to let the family know he was out. I rang the doorbell and heard a low growl behind me. The dog was showing his teeth and rigid at the bottom of the stairs, pinning me in at the door. Luckily just then the family drove in and he went all puppyish, wagging his tail and begging to play.
Less than a year later the dog had to be put down after multiple incidents of aggression. The final straw was when he attacked a painter working at the house on the other side. The bites required stitches at the hospital.
I think I would consider one of the puppies, but… I would apply the same caveats that I would apply to any case where you are acquiring a dog. I’d take my-friend-the-canine-behaviorist with me. If I found a dog I liked, I’d take the dog to the vet for a health check; I’d look carefully at the dog’s structure to see if I thought shoulders or elbows or knees or hips were likely to be a problem (those surgeries are expensive) (small dogs are prone to knee problems (Leggs Perthes), large dogs to hip dysplasia); I’d watch behavior like a hawk for the first month or so, to decide if I wanted to take on the behavior issues I saw.
I had a “project dog” once. Once was enough. Eight years of walking a fearful, leash-aggressive dog only after ten PM was enough. The next dog had hip dysplasia, allergies, other problems (but a wonderful temperament). I learned from that experience too. Neither of my current dogs is perfect, but they are a joy to train and healthy.
@electronblue, bringing dogs up from the South is very, very common here in Maine, as I said earlier. I would not assume that they are puppy mill dogs. It seems that it is very common in some parts of the South for dogs not to be spayed (and let’s face it, neutering is good but it is spaying that really stops unwanted breeding) and for them to be left outside on their own a lot. Lots of times you’ll find that the puppies were found with their mother in the woods, a ditch, an abandoned house. The dogs being brought up from the South by rescues include a lot of hound mixes and lab mixes, while up here the shelter dogs are primarily pit mixes.
It’s not uncommon for one of the rescues from the South to have an adoption fee of $500. That is usually a fraction of what they spend on vet care, including spay/neuter, heart worm treatment, vaccinations, etc, not to mention transport in many cases.
I would suggest looking at petfinder.com
“Less than a year later the dog had to be put down after multiple incidents of aggression. The final straw was when he attacked a painter working at the house on the other side. The bites required stitches at the hospital.”
My lulu was only about 10 pounds and while her bite hurt she wasn’t big enough to really do serious harm to anyone. That being said, I never, ever, let her anywhere near children. She was crated whenever we had young kids in the house and when we went on walks I always told the kids not to pet her but they could pet big dog and the little Chin. She also never roamed, plus are back yard is fenced
“Local rescue groups arrange transport of these dogs to homes hundreds of miles away, sometimes for as much as $500 in adoption fees. Is this just the way things are done?”
My Chin rescue group will transport a dog anywhere. They get volunteers to drive each leg. That is what I was doing when I fell in love with my Daisy. We paid $200 to the rescue group for the adoption.
I think the reason you see so many pit bull type dogs at the local shelters is because the call the breed rescue groups when those come in and the rescue group takes care of finding them a home.
I’m in the south and have fostered a couple of digs for rescues based in the northeast. They were pulled from shelters here and fostered by us for a couple of weeks before transport. Both lab mixes.
A few of my friends have had their foster dogs be adopted by folks in the Northeast.
Spaying/neutering is sadly not done as often as it should be here. And the climate means a longer breeding season. So most Southern shelters just have way more dogs than they can handle.
Our municipal shelter gets a whole lot of pit mixes but also a lot of labs and hounds. Lots of people hunt here so those are popular.
My dog is an former-stray pit mix. As I said, literally the kindest dog I ever met, not only with humans, but also with with small prey animals. And I am a first-time (on my own that is) dog owner, so it’s nothing I did.
That being said, it upsets me when ‘aggressive’ dogs of whatever breed are put down. I firmly believe that any dog can be reached with a good behavior specialist, patience, time, and precautions.
In addition to more pitties being at shelters, they often stay longer, making the shelter seem like it’s inundated with them. I volunteer at the shelter near my college and there are three pit bulls / pit mixes there right now. All three have been there for months. Two of them are the sweetest, nicest, gentlest dogs. The other one has some puppy-biting issues, but I’m sure if someone actually took the time to work with her she’d be a wonderful companion. It sucks.
I hope you or someone else can give those poor puppy mill babies a good home.
Great advice, dmd. I would not go dog-looking without my GSD expert sister. When we were looking for a dog, we came across an absolutely adorable GSD puppy (yup, from a breeder that was essentially running a puppy mill). When my sister took one look at the pup walking somewhat sideways, she told us that it was most likely some sort of a genetic disorder, not even the hip dysplasia often seen in GSDs, and in a couple of years we would be going through the heartbreak of putting it to sleep because it was not going to make it. Eventually, we found a pup on a local farm.
Puppy mills and inbreeding are horrible! not a dog story, but along the same lines. I have a cat that was rescued from a hoarder’s house when she was the size of the palm of my hand. Her genes are seriously messed up by the inbreeding that was going on in that house, and she already used up 5 out of her 9 lives recovering from various illnesses. She is also not the sharpest tool in the shed, so to speak, and has a major eating disorder (probably due to having to compete for food at the place where she was born). The dumpster cats (in my avatar) that kiddo found in her Ubekibekibekistan, OTOH, are great. I guess their parents had a wide pool of genes to select from - I saw lots of strays in the dumpsters when visiting D. The dumpster cats have been socialized as kittens by kind grandmas feeding them daily.
This is a little off topic, but not really. As someone involved with small animal rescue, I just want everyone to know that puppy mills are not only a dog problem. There is a huge overpopulation issue with small animals, and, unlike with dogs, there is pretty much no such thing as responsible breeders. The animals sold in pet stores come from either mills with horrendous conditions or irresponsible backyard breeders. So, if anyone is getting a small animal (a pair of guinea pigs or rabbits or other animals), please don’t buy them at pet stores (hopefully, like dogs, soon they won’t be sold at pet stores) - adopt. There are a lot of great rescues - Pet Finder is a great place to start.
Back to the dog thread 
Completely agree about small animals. They can breed even faster than cats or dogs. There are locations around Seattle where rabbits are still being dumped when no one wants to take care of that Easter bunny that the kids begged for. Sad.
acollegestudent, re: any dog can be socialized. You have a kind heart, but you base your experience with skittish dogs on the experiment with N=1. No matter what those TV dog whisperers make us believe, the sad reality is that life is not a TV show, and some dogs just cannot be rehabbed. My sister is a vet and a “dog whisperer” herself, so she has seen her fair share of such cats and dogs that come from people that I cannot even describe using acceptable to CC language. She says that she feels much less sadness when she has to send an elderly beloved pet over the Rainbow Bridge than when she has to euthanize an impossible to socialize domestic animal. While feral cats can be placed on a farm, lead a OK life while mousing a barn, aggressive dogs cannot be allowed to roam freely. (Seen that HCh documentary about feral dog packs? Terrifying! I will not link it here because it is gory.) Keeping them chained up or locked up in a kennel seems to be the only option, and a really sad one.
( Here is my N= 1 story… When I was a kid, my father rescued a dog from a horrid, abusive situation. It was chained up and being fed stale bread. It never became people-accepting despite all loving care and had to be continued to kenneled because it was a menace to our neighborhood. I still have a scar where it bit me. (It is a long story, so I don’t want to derail this thread). )
I have adopted two “puppy mill” dogs - basset hounds. They came as a bonded pair. One (the older one) adapted easily to life in our home; warms up to people, easy to deal with. The younger (after two years) is a sweetheart in her own right; but does not like strangers, loud noises, walks with too many people around etc. She loves our family, and we accept her personality quirks. We have tried meds, dog therapists, etc, but she is just too scarred from something in her background or genetics, I guess. However she is not aggressive at all - just nervous. When people she doesn’t know come over, she goes in a small room, or behind the couch, where no one bothers her. Both are very healthy.
If i were to do it over, I would be more careful about checking out their personalities. I adopted them from a friend who helped run a rescue and wasn’t exactly up front about the difficulty of socializing a scared dog past a certain age. However, they both were very easy to house train and are really sweet with us. For the scared dog’s sake, its a good thing she landed with us as many people would not want a dog with such a nervous personality.
So, it turned out ok ; but i would be more careful in the future. I would definitely not buy from a breeder or pet store, on principle. If the scared dog was aggressive at all, that would be a no go. I feel like i have one child who is “special needs!” But she has a happy life with us, and while its frustrating at times, I know she is happy.
OP- go for it, but with eyes wide open. I didn’t know much about dogs before, but I sure do now. (had cats before).
My male corgi was ( along with his litter mates ) were temperament tested before they were ready to go to their homes. We did not choose him , the breeder ( who knew my other dogs well ) chose him for us. She knew that we wouldn’t do well with another female since our girl is an alpha and she also considered the personality of the submissive male. I met the litter when they were 12 weeks old. She holds on to her babies until they are well socialized and well on their way to being house and crate trained. There was a time when I thought that having a puppy would just be too much work , but the groundwork was laid out and it was a breeze to train him. The support we got from the breeder was fantastic…she is still there for me if I have any questions and both of my dogs go to her for grooming and boarding if we take a trip.
No question in my mind that if we someday get another , it will come from her.
Rarely can you find a corgi in a shelter in our area but one did show up about two years ago…had I not had the guidance from this woman, I might have made the emotional decision ( who can resist those big, sad eyes ? ) to take her home. The shelter dog was dumped there because she was an alpha and didn’t get along with their other dog…It would have ended badly if I didn’t have the knowledge that I thankfully had
@1or2Musicians thank you so much for fostering rescues. My hat is off to those who do it.
@BunsenBurner I love GSDs and had them all my life until we “switched” to Goldens. At this point, I think that the ideal GSD would be a working dog trainee of European lines who is a stable dog who washed out because of insufficient drive–not because of nerves! I would only look at GSDs from working kennels, no US-style show dogs. I find their grossly exaggerated hindquarters extremely distasteful. You have to be really careful with shepherds, IMNSHO.
zoosermom, This rescue group http://www.wagsrescue.com/ourdogs.php is where we got our dog late last summer. She was found abandoned in rural North Carolina, sent to a high kill shelter and brought north by a dog rescue transport group. She’s a mix, part golden, and just the sweetest dog ever. Our old dog, that we had to put down two years ago was a golden that we got from a backyard breeder. He was much more aggressive and problematic than our girl even though we got him as a pup. I don’t really understand it, because how can you tell about temperament from a puppy? We tried our golden’s whole life to stop him from jumping on strangers but he didn’t stop doing that until he was quite old. He pulled on the leash most of his life until we got the gentle leader. He had issues with food, sharing toys, etc. Our rescue girl however loves everyone she meets but doesn’t jump on them. She walks with no pulling. I can take food out of her mouth. It’s like night and day. This transport group is one I follow on FB and they work with some great rescue groups: http://www.rescueroadtrips.com/New_England_Drop_Offs.html
Our first Pyr we got from a breeder/shower. He was out fancy pet. The breeder took orders for the upcoming litter then did temperament testing at I believe 6 weeks (there is a standard protocol) and again at 8 weeks before finalizing the match. We also had to go through a “vetting” process and meet the parents pre-litter for their approval then again with parents and pup before adoption/purchase. Contract stipulated that he was pet class and to be fixed and no papers until proof of neutering. Pyrs are active working dogs guarding flocks in our area so the alphas go there. We had the runt of the litter who was a gentle giant and wonderful with our small children.
Pyr #2 came from the breed rescue society. Our breeder has since passed away so I started with the breed group when looking for another. There are many, many dogs out of Kentucky and Texas. The rescue groups pull them pull them out of the shelters and place them with foster families. It seems that with dogs spaying/neutering is less common in the south as is fencing. Our dog was turned in to the rescue group by her family at about 10 months when she went into heat and started roaming (yep, no fixing and no fencing). They had expected that a dog would just stay in the yard but Pyrs will cover a lot of territory. We went through an extensive vetting process including an interview, vet interview, photos of our fencing, etc. We had to wait 2 months after I put my application in as she needed to finish her heat before she could be spayed then she had to wait for the next transport. She came from the Houston area and they do a major transport once a month in our direction. She is an amazingly beautiful and sweet dog. She wasn’t chained or confined and was never in a shelter so she has no temperament issues related to that. She is, however, about as Alpha as they come - a very different temperament than our first within the natural range of Pyr temperament. The rescue group specifies if the dog is good with kids, cats, other dogs etc. She is great with kids and cats but with other dogs it depends. She loves labs (what you see is what you get, no agenda) and dislikes Australian Shepherds on sight. She seems to just know.
I think with any dog, rescue or otherwise, it’s important as an owner to take responsibility for the type of dog that you have. While our Pyr is goofy and sweet, we say only half jokingly that she is our 120 pound killing machine because if she wanted to she could and would. A foul tempered or hair triggered dachshund or pomeranian might leave needle marks in your ankles but it’s not going to take you down.