<p>I just picked up the book called Infidel, about a former Muslim woman (she was working on that film in Hollan where the director was murdered/assisinated)</p>
<p>It is interesting to here her speak (she was also on NPR) and the obsession culturely with “purity”- from female circumsission, to veils, to rape…while the activities used to attain the goal of purity are different the MINDSET of the people is pretty much the same…</p>
<p>I just don’t know how ANY self-respected second-chance virgin could do without the pre-threaded sewing kit. :eek:</p>
<p>“there are people fighting tooth and nail (usually not conservatives) for the right/freedom/duty(?) of these girls to have sex”</p>
<p>Who, specifically, is doing this tooth-and-nail fighting for the right/freedom/duty of teenage girls to have sex? Are you talking about individuals on the board? The editors of Glamour?</p>
<p>And honest question, what is a “zipless ****”?</p>
<p>emeraldkitty:</p>
<p>That’s a parody website, right? Right?</p>
<p>Stickershock, dressing up an opinion with reference to scientific studies which may or may not actually have a relationship, direct or indirect, with the opinion at hand doesn’t constitute “proof.” I can say from my observation of the late teen/early twenty-somethings I know that for the most part the girls around here seem to have the upper hand when it comes to “walking away from relationships.” Of course, that’s a statistically small sampling. :)</p>
<p>I will say this: I’m a lot more comfortable with the idea of my daughter having sex in her teens than with the prospect that she would get married in her teens - and I feel the same way about my sons. I think the emotional, etc. risks of the latter dwarf those of the former. But if the taboo against sex before marriage were to gain a lot of traction I could certainly foresee a jump in teen marriages - and subsequent divorces. Unintended consequences…</p>
<p>Hanna - I think the reference is to Erica Jong’s “Fear of Flying”</p>
<p>“That’s a parody website, right? Right?”</p>
<p>Did you see the tithing purse autographed by the King of Kings himself?</p>
<p>“and yet, as above, there are people fighting tooth and nail (usually not conservatives) for the right/freedom/duty(?) of these girls to have sex.”</p>
<p>My wife and I seem to have failed mightily with both of our d’s. Sigh. I don’t know what we could have done differently, taken them to the Purity Ball? Where did we go wrong? They just won’t do it, no matter how we wink, cajole, suggest, manipulate, or order them. One’s 19 and the other’s 16. But we seem to have created a gaggle of liberal prudes. </p>
<p>Maybe if I get each of them one of them there sewing kits…</p>
<p>that is a good question to ponder- if the average age of marriage these days is above 25-26, are people really waiting until 25 on their wedding night, or do they marry earlier?</p>
<p>wonder what the average age of marriage is for those that take the pledge…just wondering</p>
<p>
Dressing up? How about following the scientific method: Make an observation, create a hypothesis to explain the observation, make predictions based upon the hypothesis, then test. Change hypothesis as data indicates such a need. That’s what neuropsychologists are doing. I think their findings constitute “proof” more conclusively than your casual observations of your kids & their teenage friends. </p>
<p>Casual hook-ups, friends with benefits – this prevailing campus mindset of no-consequence sex is devastating for girls. They pay a much higher price than boys do. I’m not following how you jump from “casual, meaningless sex is bad” to “teenage marriage is the alternative & that’s probably worse.” I think there are several levels of healthy relationship commitment with varrying degrees of intimacy that you’ve completely overlooked!</p>
<p>I think there is something in between hookups and marriage too, and that more than likely will include some sexual interludes in college, or afterwards, pre marriage. </p>
<p>I don’t in any way believe that girls have to “save” themselves for marriage, but we have taught our children to behave responsibly about sex, and realize that it is a serious undertaking. I respect their decision making, and don’t plan on micromanaging that aspect of their lives, unless I had reason to believe that they were behaving in ways that were unsafe.</p>
<p>Beyond that, no chastity belts or purity balls for us. Blech.</p>
<p>I don’t want my girls hurt, but I want them to think for themselves and pledging their sexuality to daddy until he hands her off to another man…is that healthy?</p>
<p>“I can’t trust myself enough to take care of myself, so I surrender to my daddy and promise my maidenhood will be untouched, at least by a *****, until I get married…I won’t even have a BF or male relationships until I am courted and heading down the aisle…all that is for my daddy”…ewwww</p>
<p>I don’t like choices females make- I find the girls gone wild stuff tacky…but I find marrying daddy at age 8 even worse…</p>
<p>It is taking away their power and control and putting their bodies in daddy’s hand…</p>
<p>Considering that most girls break the pledge and when they do have higher rates of STD then their “educated” conterparts…makes one think</p>
<p>Sorry if I find it creepy that a girl, on her wedding night, called one of the woman running the purity balls, because she was scared and cluesless…</p>
<p>and where is mom in all this…</p>
<p>Stickershock - You’re long on hypotheses, short on tests. That’s the problem. You’ve stated an opinion with scientific windowdressing, nothing more. As to what is “devastating for girls”, I’m slower to form an opinion. I have to note that I would expect that parental condemnation and the expectation of being devastated would not tend to help a young person’s frame of mind. What’s the cause, what’s the effect? I honestly don’t know, and don’t claim to, and find people’s confidence in knowing the answer to be questionable.</p>
<p>Its not a parody
If it is, it is pretty elaborate.</p>
<p>Boys don’t have that hormonal chain reaction & can walk away from relationships, and their emotional consequences, much easier than girls</p>
<p>I don’t see that in the young men I know ( and have known)
Men are often less verbal than women, and may have a harder time putting into words what is going on emotionally for them, and men are encouraged by society to compartmentalize their relationships, but I don’t think men are any less affected by them.</p>
<p>I also sensed that the fathers in the article were looking for a way to be involved with their daughters & this happened to be an available and structured way. I don’t think they necessarily bought into the whole package of virginity being some magical quality that will guarentee their daughters happiness if she bestows it upon her husband on their wedding night.</p>
<p>I have tried to raise my kids with the belief that they will be more likely to make healthy choices, if they realize that they have power to do so.
They are the only ones living their lives, not for their father, not for their partner/boss/child- their choices- their lives.</p>
<p>“Boys don’t have that hormonal chain reaction & can walk away from relationships, and their emotional consequences, much easier than girls.”</p>
<p>Yeah, don’t we have it sweet, and add in a little alcohol, and we don’t even remember. :eek:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhBSpzK203Q[/url]”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhBSpzK203Q</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:D8CqcIC0txsJ:www.wbcl.org/PurityBallbrochure2006-2007.pdf+purity+ball+girls&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=safari[/url]”>http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:D8CqcIC0txsJ:www.wbcl.org/PurityBallbrochure2006-2007.pdf+purity+ball+girls&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=safari</a></p>
<p>my Ds go with their dad to father daughter dances- have for YEARS…but the idea is to have fun…not to promise dad her virginity…and yes, I do know the healthier the relationship is with dad, the better…but this to me, is just weird and it crosses the line…dad is NOT the BF…</p>
<p>"I think their findings constitute “proof” "</p>
<p>If those findings exist, CITE TO THE STUDIES. The problem here is that you’re asserting that there are empirical data, but we’re just supposed to believe you, without seeing the data for ourselves.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s dad who has to promise HIS virginity… (now that’s a thought…;)</p>
<p>mini, that’s the point. In hook-ups (isn’t that what the young folk call it?) where no real dating or non-sexual bonding takes place, the boy walks away without emotional damage. Girls don’t escape so easily, because powerful hormones have created an attachment & bond that the boy doesn’t share.</p>
<p>emerald: Are these boys you speak of actually “dating?” I presume they are, as I doubt many would be confiding in you about their emotional let-down from one-night-stands. A relationship, not casual sex, is where a boy will gain attachment. And I am aware that boys can be devastated from relationships that are ended by the girlfriend, rather than a mutual decision. With girls, the attachment is created from just the physical act of sex. That doesn’t appear to be the case with boys.</p>
<p>“Girls don’t escape so easily, because powerful hormones have created an attachment & bond”</p>
<p>This would be a really great place to cite to an EMPIRICAL STUDY from a university showing that sex produces “attachment hormones” in females but not in males.</p>
<p>It is not possible to discuss this issue here because some posters are so invested in protecting their world-view. </p>
<p>A book such as Unprotected: A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals How Political Correctness in Her Profession Endangers Every Student by MDAnonymous has been shot down by posters here before discussion even began.</p>
<p>Any studies I could offer about how young girls are suffering in the present culture of “friends with benefits,” and casual “hook-ups,” for example, would be immediately dismissed here as “right-wing” propaganda. Even the word “abstinence” elicits guffaws, and even outrage here.</p>