Quadruplets Admitted to Yale

[ChoklitRain]

<p>

That is, I personally do not think that schools practice the racially-based AA that you, and others, seem to think they do.

</p>

<p>If you look at the official admissions criteria of the school I’m attending next year, the University of Penn, you will see that “ethnic status” is a factor that is considered. Other Ivies may not openly say so, but in reality they all have similar admissions policies.</p>

[Amerindian]

<p>

Amerindian- while I have the deepest sympathies for your friend, I have to say that what you posted is anecdotal evidence, and does not really contribute to the pro-AA argument. it is a sad story, but it is not representative of the entire race’s experiences

</p>

<p>I was merely using that example to point out that extreme racism exists in 2009; it’s not simply a thing of the past.</p>

[drbigboyjoe9505]

<p>ChoklitRain: I’m not saying that it’s not a factor considered. Rather I’m saying that I do not think that adcoms look at someone’s ethnicity, see “Black” (or whatever) and then automatically throw that application into the admits pile. Nor do I think that they see “Black” and then excuse a 2.0 GPA and a 1600 SAT. While all applicants of color might not have a 4.0/2400, they do have decent stats. Definitely above a 3.0 and probably above a 2000 (although it being a standardized test score, I wouldn’t be surprised if lower). Sure, it’s not what we all have come to consider as EXCELLENT, but depending on the context it might very well be.</p>

<p>Basically, I do not think that colleges look at race in a vaccum, whereas everyone else seems to think they do.</p>

[meadowpegasus]

<p>To drbigboyjoe9505, thank you!</p>

<p>I’ve made a separate “chance me” post, so please come and comment… Any inputs will be greatly appreciated.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/837292-please-chance-me.html#post1063800472[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/837292-please-chance-me.html#post1063800472&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[LuciaB]

<p>

Could you please stop. The way you write is extremely pompous and not even effective speech. I was the 11th best speaker in the entire state of Texas and I do not speak or write like that, even my friends who were number 3 and number 5 in the nation do not speak or write in that manner. I understand that you are trying to make yourself seem intelligent, but you do not need to be pedantic in every sentence you write.

</p>

<p>I think mifune’s writing is beautiful and his arguments on this thread have been the most effective because of it — not becuase his language is exaggerated and empty. You do not need to put your own qualifications or achievement down to show that you or anyone else knows more about writing than anyone else. He’s showing authority not making some image of himself so no need to personally attack anyone. Since good writing seems to be a lost art according to the older generation, writing well and having a large vocabulary is certainly not the worst thing you can have.</p>

[LuciaB]

<p>

Y’all have been saying how hard it is for an Asian to get accepted to Ivy Leagues and colleges of equivalent difficulty in admission decision. Well how about a female Asian with a 1800 SAT and >25 ACT and 3.953 unweighted GPA, 5 AP classes, who has moved to the U.S. less than 5 years ago?</p>

<p>Would the admission committee even take the noted fact (>5 years immigrant) into account and accept me?

</p>

<p>This is why racial AA is not that positive. For someone who has 13 years in a foreign country with limited opportunity, I think meadows deserves some form of AA to place context to what he or she has achieved.</p>

[Dbate]

<p>There is something as context when choosing which words to use. In an online discussion forum one does not have to prove that they are shakespeare to get their message across. To write in such a way actually makes the message much less effective because it is way too extreme.</p>

[Amerindian]

<p>

I think mifune’s writing is beautiful and his arguments on this thread have been the most effective because of it — not becuase his language is exaggerated and empty. You do not need to put your own qualifications or achievement down to show that you or anyone else knows more about writing than anyone else. He’s showing authority not making some image of himself so no need to personally attack anyone. Since good writing seems to be a lost art according to the older generation, writing well and having a large vocabulary is certainly not the worst thing you can have.

</p>

<p>If he’s going to go through the trouble of using such words, he can at least make sure that he is spelling them correctly.</p>

[drbigboyjoe9505]

<p>

This is why racial AA is not that positive. For someone who has 13 years in a foreign country with limited opportunity, I think meadows deserves some form of AA to place context to what he or she has achieved.

</p>

<p>And her context will be considered. You are acting as if race trumps all in college admissions. Everyone is judged in her individual context. If she is not accepted it is because the admissions office either feels she is not adequately prepared for Yale, and will therefore not thrive there or because they find some other major flaw in her application other than her standardized test scores. It is not as if someone else who’s less deserving will get in over her simply because said person is black.</p>

[meadowpegasus]

<p>Dbate: I like what you just wrote.</p>

<p>It’s true. Talking like Shakespeare in a discussion forum is like talking nuclear science to a NORMAL (not a genius or mentally-superior) fourth-grader. The message would never come across.</p>

[drbigboyjoe9505]

<p>I must agree that I’ve found some of mifune’s writing difficult to work through at times. But, on a whole, I don’t mind it. There are more important things to discuss than how mifune is writing.</p>

[ChoklitRain]

<p>

It is not as if someone else who’s less deserving will get in over her simply because said person is black.

</p>

<p>That’s exactly what could happen. Many URMs at top schools are amazingly impressive, but former admissions officers admit that standards are lowered, sometimes drastically, for other URM applicants. This isn’t really a debatable point.</p>

[Anonymous93]

<p>Let me just preface this by saying that I am an Asian female; therefore, I do not benefit from AA.</p>

<p>I am horrified by what this thread has turned into. I think the OP meant for this to be a celebratory thread, in which we could commend the quadruplets who were all admitted into Yale. This is an astounding feat, regardless of ethnicity. We should share their enthusiam and be happy for them, instead of tearing the achievements into pieces and evaluating them based on race. None of us know them, and if you do, then I’m sure you’re able to say that they’ve all done something amazing to deserve their admittance to Yale. That being said, if you don’t know them, you can’t claim that their race played an important role in their being admitted to Yale. </p>

<p>As previous posters have mentioned, it’s not as though Yale is admitting people who have no potential to succeed (not that I think those people exist. Actually, that’s not true ). All of the quadruplets were fairly talented in their respective fields, even though they were different. So maybe they don’t have perfect SAT scores or amazing awards, but all of them were dedicated to what they love, and if they are admitted to Yale, they deserve it. 90% of people applicants are able to do the workload at Yale (this comes from a question asked at the info session), and so of course Yale had to diversify their campus. Would you really want to go to school with, say, 4000 white males? Or 4000 Asian females? As a forum, supposedly composed of intelligent individuals, we should all be capable of realizing that the 4 students all were gifted in some way and will succeed at Yale, or at whatever university they choose to attend.</p>

<p>That being said, I’m not at all unaware of the advantages that being an URM gives an applicant. However, the difference is minute. The people accepted, regardless of ethnicity, are talented and capable. If AA didn’t exist, most URM would not be given the opportunity to attend college, as opportunity is cyclical. If your parents didn’t attend college, it’s unlikely that you would have that opportunity, and so your children will likely not attend college, and furthermore. AA prevents that from happening. </p>

<p>I think we’ve forgotten who we’re talking about. YALE. Sure, being an URM gave those 4 kids an advantage, but it’s not like Yale thought, “Oh! LOOK! URM!!! WE NEVER GET ANY OF THOSE. ADMIT ADMIT ADMIT.”</p>

<p>At the end, I’m most concerned that this thread has evolved into something that simply gives bitter individuals a method to detract from the achievements of others by claiming that their achievements were due to AA. I don’t know the quadruplets, but you most likely do not either, so why are you not giving them the benefit of the doubt? I’m sure when you’re accepted, someone out there is going to think “Oh, that just happened because he/she is an athlete,” or “They were only accepted because they wrote a good essay,” but you know that’s not true. You are more than what an article can write about you.</p>

<p>Okay. Adios, chicos.
BTW, mifune probably got amazing CR/WR scores. Not that I think verbosity is particularly applicable to a situation like this one. However, his/her ability to add additional, unneeded words is amazing. I bet it’d be fun to listen to.</p>

[drbigboyjoe9505]

<p>ChoklitRain: If any top school is accepting ANY student, black, white, Asian, Latino, who does not demonstrate the ability of succeeding at their school, I would personally chastise that school as openly, plainly as possible. No school should be lowering their standards to accept people who will not succeed at their school. That is setting the kid up for failure.</p>

<p>However, if “lowering their standards” means not judging everyone to your definition of “impressive” or “qualified,” then you are the one at fault.</p>

[Stupefy]

<p>

I was merely using that example to point out that extreme racism exists in 2009; it’s not simply a thing of the past.

It may exist in that specific case, but it’s certainly not a mass phenomenon. stuff like that would get HUGE publicity (Jena 6 for example) so I’m not inclined to believe that the instance you shared with us is in any way indicative of american society today</p>

[drbigboyjoe9505]

<p>Anonymous93: I think we have moved far beyond debating the merits of the quads.</p>

[ChoklitRain]

<p>

ChoklitRain: If any top school is accepting ANY student, black, white, Asian, Latino, who does not demonstrate the ability of succeeding at their school, I would personally chastise that school as openly, plainly as possible. No school should be lowering their standards to accept people who will not succeed at their school. That is setting the kid up for failure.

</p>

<p>They’re not lowering their standards to the point where students are being accepted who can’t do the work, but they’re lowering their standards by a lot in some cases. There is a huge jump between someone who can just barely do the work and the typical Yale admit. Some students who fall between those two extremes are admitted based on their race, just as others between the extremes are admitted based on sports or legacy status. Read “A is for Admission” by a former Dartmouth admissions officer if you’re interested in some of the intricacies of Ivy admissions.</p>

[Anonymous93]

<p>drbigboyjoe9505: I realize that, but my words are applicable to MOST (not all) of the URMs admitted. I felt like relating it back to the quadruplets is important so you guys realize what this massive fight came from.</p>

<p>BTW, typing your name made me realize how strange it is In a good way.</p>

[Dbate]

<p>

“That’s exactly what could happen. Many URMs at top schools are amazingly impressive, but former admissions officers admit that standards are lowered, sometimes drastically, for other URM applicants. This isn’t really a debatable point.”

</p>

<p>I VERY much question if the standards are lowered drastically. I was probably the least qualified person to get into Yale as a URM that I personally know and i still was pretty accomplished.</p>

[drbigboyjoe9505]

<p>^ I might have been even less qualified. But then again, how are you defining qualified? :)</p>

<p>We should totally have this discussion in person!! I’d die to hear you say these things out loud.</p>

<p>Oh, and anonymous, my name is very strange. Something only the mind of a bored 11 year old could come up with.</p>