Exactly, there is something to be said about collaborating with, learning from, and sometimes competing with, the best and brightest student body that brings out the best in you. Are there very smart kids at many colleges, of course, but with the most selective colleges, every class you take will have a disproportionately high concentration of smart and talented kids just like your son. I think parents like you understand these intangible benefits and seek them out for their kids.
I think the reason these threads get so emotional is that every parent wants to do the “right” thing for their kid. It is important to recognize that all kids and families have different needs, different desires, different values, different emphases. And that’s okay!
It does not invalidate one family’s choice if another family makes a different choice!
For me, the return on investment is that my kid will have a wonderful four years of intellectual exploration and stimulation. That’s what I always wanted for him. How much he earns afterwards is not important to me; I hope he will be happily fulfilled in whatever career he chooses for himself and in his life overall, and that the time he spent in college honing his thinking and writing and exploring ideas will help him to live a more intellectually satisfying life.
But that does not mean that other families should all think like my family members do!
Not everyone will define ROI in terms of financial gain, which is fine. And for those that do, a child’s individual personality and ambition may shape their future earnings even more than the college attended.
Ultimately, if you listen to your child and consider how to help your child attain a college education that matches their wishes and needs and personality, there are many excellent choices and no single “right” choice.
For computer engineering/science I would look at the First Destination Survey results for Grads and see what the average starting salaries are for the colleges.
I would look at the employers of those grads.
Every family has their own priority. Some may sacrifice more financially for a college education that they perceive to be “better”. Don’t we all sometimes overpay for something we cherish?
Yes, sometimes we do overpay but others will equally underpay trying to get the best financial “deal” and may have some regrets later…
“Not everyone will define ROI in terms of financial gain,”
What do you mean by this? ROI is by definition a financial calculation, and the OP pretty has been talking about earnings, 529, tax savings, which indicates he or she is looking at it from mostly a financial point of view, if not 100% financial.
Happiness is the new ROI…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobmorgan/2015/09/12/is-happiness-the-new-roi/
I would simply suggest sending kid to the best school you can afford. How you define “best” is entirely up to you/kid. Lot of fit issues typically go into that.
Virtually impossible to quantify because you’ll never know how your kid would have done elsewhere. So much of it is random. What classes did they take? Which professors did they have? What clubs did they join. What network did they form? What opportunities did they take advantage of?
If you identify your “best” AND your kid is accepted AND you can afford it, why wouldn’t you pay for it? Assuming you place things in tiers (which may or may not make sense), why wouldn’t you choose a higher tier?
Sorry for being so logical in what is a very emotional topic.
At our selective school there are many more students who want to do research than there a professors to work with. It stands to reason that if each professor gets only one student then the number of positions is small and fill up quickly.
There are plenty of kids at elite colleges who test well. That doesn’t make them innovative, ambitious, or the smartest people in the room. I see their grades and I talk with them every day. The “best and the brightest”? No. They’re great kids. But there’s a lot of hand holding. It’s not difficult to do reasonably well when you’re not allowed to fail.
But college can be a very different world than high school. There are open ended questions with no one right answer that test how students think, not just how well they memorize. Some really struggle with it, some do okay, and a few excel. This is no different than our state school.
@rickle1 Your “logic” just ignores the important subjective factors, including ROI. There are plenty of things objectively better than the things we choose irrespective of affordability. For example, houses, cars, clothes, etc. There’s no avoiding the question of value to the person spending the money.
Your post really resonated with me. It reminded me of a conversation my oldest son and I had with a woman at church when he was a high school sr.
She asked him if he had decided on a school and major. He told her yes and that he planned on majoring in chemE and where. She looked him in the eye and told him that he needed to plan on a different major b/c her valedictorian 36 ACT ds had been a chemE major there and couldn’t manage the work and was now a psy major.
My ds was definitely not a “36 on the ACT” student. He proceeded to graduate with honors with his chemE degree. While an UG, he was invited by profs at that U to participate on their research projects and then received great LOR from them.
It really depends on major and on the kid and on the comparable school. Do you really believe that every kid at an elite school is there for the life of the mind and the kids at slightly lower ranked or public universities are not? There are kids at the most elite colleges that are smart, driven toward their professional goals, privileged and not all that interested in intellectual pursuits… Would your kid have less intellectual curiosity and value if he/she got shut out of the top 20 and had to attend a (in your opinion) lesser school? We are not talking about Harvard vs the local college that accepts anyone with a HS diploma, but schools that get the students that didn’t get into the elite schools, sometimes because the rejected students were more interested in learning than in chasing grades (and, of course, other times because they just didn’t do well enough).
And, as @austinmshauri points out, depending on major (bio for example) there are many more undergrads that want to do research than there are positions for undergrads in active, grant-driven research labs even at the best schools.
It shocks me that a millionaire who has already saved up enough in a tax-advantaged account stresses about these decisions. No one should tell you what to do with your money. But for you, the question is no more consequential to your long-term financial well-being than asking, "Why buy a Rolls Royce when a Honda will do just fine?
Many of the parents I talk to about my alma mater ask questions like how much debt are they expected to take on and whether education loans require credit checks. They are almost always surprised when I tell them that no loans are expected. Some of the students deal with issues like how to pay for books and personal items when they send their work-study earnings home to help meet their families’ needs. They are always reluctant to reach out for extra financial aid. And despite the fact that most students get financial aid, those from families earning the median income of $60-$70k/year or less often feel desperately isolated and left out because of tight finances.
I don’t mean to be callous, but compared to their concerns, yours just seem less urgent to me. Tell your child to go to UMass, it is a great school in a wonderful town, and keep the 529 for your future non-existent grandchild. You’re probably right that it won’t make much difference in your child’s life. But, I really hope my alma mater does not spend a second worrying about ROI for you.
"For me, the return on investment is that my kid will have a wonderful four years of intellectual exploration and stimulation. That’s what I always wanted for him. How much he earns afterwards is not important to me; I hope he will be happily fulfilled in whatever career he chooses for himself and in his life overall, and that the time he spent in college honing his thinking and writing and exploring ideas will help him to live a more intellectually satisfying life.
But that does not mean that other families should all think like my family members do!"
This. Very well said.
@itsgettingreal17 I think you miss my point. All of those subjective issues are captured in what the OP considers “Best”. That’s why I said if kid gets into"Best" and that’s affordable, why would you choose something else?
Or maybe I miss your point?
@carlsen – I think you need to decide in advance that you are willing to spend x on college, regardless of the college choice, and you need to use the same framework for your younger children. You should bump the dollar figure up for the younger ones to reflect the increase in college costs over time.
You will start down a slippery slope if you announce that you will pay for MIT or CMU but not for Cornell or Tufts (or whatever schools you want to sub in).
Suppose your next children do not have the academic qualifications for admission to MIT or CMU. Do you strike a different arrangement for them?
UMass Amherst gives you the best of both worlds.
Due to the Five College Consortium, your child can take classes at Amherst College and other highly-selective LACs in the area. He can join any club at any other colleges.
My daughter decided on the other Amherst school as a CS major. AC is cheaper than UMA for our family. She can take graduate UMass CS classes as an undergrad at a small LAC and it’s all paid for.
You already know what reputation UMass has in CS. No LAC can touch it, nor can most T20 schools. If he picks UMass, he can also get an outstanding prestige liberal arts education if he desires, all at a budget price.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be willing to pay extra for some combinations of college and major, if they fit better and are still “affordable”. They may be worth it for some students. Not all colleges/majors are the same, in terms of curricula, opportunities, or even general academic environments, even for the relatively egalitarian major like CS. But they mean nothing if the college isn’t a good fit, especially academically and financially.
@1NJParent – My comment has more to do with fairness to each child in the family. It is impossible to know today if the younger children will achieve the same combination of college admissions.
Does the parent want to be the one who decides that he will fully fund schools in the 1-10 ranking but not those in the 11-20? It can only result in hard feelings if clear parameters are not communicated in advance.
Agree with CT1417. What kind of dynamic are you setting up with your kids when you’ve paid full freight for Northwestern but not Vanderbilt based on some arbitrary magazine ranking? Imagine Thanksgiving long after you are dead…