Some people are a lot better at one of these compared to the other. As an example, I am absolutely terrible at painting. Give me a blank canvas to paint on, and my mind basically turns blank. For this choice I think that any student should take what is right for them. For me it would be ceramics and it would not be close. For your son, he can decide and IMHO should expect this to have no impact on university admissions (assuming that he is not planning to major in either painting or ceramics).
Overall, I agree with other answers. I think that the student should take the classes which are right for the student. I do not think that you or your student should think about what a university admissions person wants. They should do what is right for them. This assumes that the student is completing high school graduation requirements, and takes the obviously required courses (such as math for a potential engineering or economics or physics major).
Also, different high schools in the US have wildly different ways to compute weighted GPA. I do not think that weighted GPA means much. Admissions will look at the actual grades.
My wife and daughters and I were all applying (at some point in time) for various STEM majors. I do not think that how we did in language or art classes really mattered much if at all (which was very fortunate in my case when applying to graduate programs).
This approach of “Take classes that are right for the student. Participate in the ECs that make sense for the student. Whatever you do, do it well.” has worked well for my family, and I would recommend this for other students as well. This is my understanding of the approach recommended in the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site, and it has worked for us so far.
The language he took in MS isn’t offered at the HS. He speaks, reads and writes a third language quite well, so he could test into a higher level of that language.
But he loves languages, and has until this GPA thing came up loved the idea of learning as many as he can. The new HS offers some he hasn’t had the option of taking, and he was excited about they until he realized it would come with a GPA hit.
I thought the expectation was 4 years in HS so while the MS language will be on his transcript it won’t count
Many count it, one of my kids’ schools required 2 year but had to be taken in HS, more of an outlier than the norm. My kids got up to AP Spanish junior year after taking 1 and 2 in middle school.
4 years or through level 4 of the same language. 2 years of one language and 2 years of another counts as 2 years. MS language plus 2 years in HS completing level 4, particularly if there’s nothing past level 4 available at the HS, will satisfy every single college. There may be some further nuance if the 3rd language you mention is a heritage language with no prior formal instruction.
So it doesn’t sound like he can get to level 4 of the language he took in MS because it’s not offered in his HS. BUT if he can test into a higher level of another language (except if it’s a language spoken in the home…) he could get to level four of that language without actually taking four years of the language. I think.
I really hope this kid is level headed. Seems like he has D1 athletic plans with a perfect GPA to be an engineer. Oh to be young again with big dreams.
Definitely agree with letting him choose. The art question, to me, seems easy - choose the medium he prefers, irrespective of weighting.
The language question is more complicated, because it has implications for subsequent years. It’s possible that he could regret starting at the lowest level in a new language for more reasons than just GPA-weighting. Those reasons could include: 1) the first level of a new language feeling very slow and uninspiring and 2) being stuck with a commitment to take that language for all of high school, when he might end up wanting that time for other electives, and/or might find that it means multiple years with the same teacher(s) that he might or might not like. (My kids avoided these issues by doing a summer immersion program in their new language, which catapulted them past the drudgery of intro classes with both ease and enjoyment. But that might not be an option for a serious athlete who has to train year-round.)
So, I’d make sure he understands the implications of the decision, going forward… but then it should be his up to him.
Honestly, I would nip this attitude in the bud right now. This approach to GPA is exactly why most high schools (it appears) no longer make rankings public. It’s one thing to live up to one’s academic potential, but quite another to strategize for hundredths of a GPA point just to edge out another student. Those hundredths of a point are meaningless.
Taking a new language is great! Learning a new discipline in art is fantastic! It would be a different situation, I think, if he wanted to slack off in math or English and decide not to challenge himself by being in a class with an appropriate level of difficulty. But that’s not really the choice here. Neither of you has any way to predict his GPA. “Winning” at high school means doing your best, challenging yourself, and gaining the maturity to understand that what’s best for you (the student) is not a competition, and not the same as what’s best for everyone else.
It’s more about getting to the 4th-year level than actually having four years. So if a student starts in 9th grade at level 2 or 3 due to language work already completed in MS, and gets to 4th or 5th year level before senior year, that’s still fine.
Highest level achieved matters significantly. Three years ending at level 4 (due to a middle school head start) counts for more than four different level 1 courses.
Seems like implied the choices are:
Take the language already known, starting at an appropriate higher level (what level is he likely to start in?). After completing the highest level offered, either start a new language or choose other academic electives.
Start a new language, continuing on to level 4 by taking a course each year.
First, good for you for thinking ahead. While it’s too early to think about college, it’s good to look ahead and avoid the “if only we knew” regrets.
Second, good for your kid in being ambitious and planning to work hard. Like most posters here, I’d recommend re-directing that ambition into somewhat different goals.
For freshman year, one objective should be to preserve options. Take the courses that will keep the upper level tracks open. He can start developing the self-awareness about what he likes and why and really focus on learning. He should set some non-academic goals that have to do with personal development, whether doing something outside his comfort zone, exploring or further committing to an interest.
As for courses, let him choose based on what interests him. If he wants his choices to be about highest weighted GPA, it’s worthwhile having a deeper conversation about why that’s important to him (recognizing all the caveats in expecting candor from an 8th grade boy!). I’d point out that depriving oneself of more interesting classes borders on self-destructive. Likewise, if there’s a setback at some point for any reason (illness, tough class, etc), his objective is out of reach an effort of any kind may seem futile. This strategy also makes risk-taking a bad idea when in fact, it could be exactly what he needs academically!
If he’s up for it, you might want to persuade him to read Excellent Sheep. It’s a bit older, but a pretty compelling book.
If class rank is not part of the equation, then your child should absolutely take what he wants (and even if rank was part of the equation, I would encourage following interests ahead of what has the higher weighting). That being said…my youngest didn’t follow that advice. When she hadn’t taken a fine arts class and realized some of her colleges preferred to see one, she began to panic. It turns out her school limited even further what classes a senior could take and fine arts were severely limited. She ended up taking a course via Dual Enrollment (which means she’ll get the weighted credit she wanted after all).
Languages can be painful if the student is not enthused about it. If there is a language that captures attention, choose that. But be aware that top schools really prefer to see a student reach 4 years or AP level in a language and that would be easier with a language they already began in middle school (but certainly doable with a language starting in 9th grade).
I highly urge all parents to put limits on how many AP classes your child takes at once. My oldest did a full course of them in 11th and she spent so many nights getting 1 - 2 hours of sleep. I put my foot down with my youngest and her life is so much more balanced (and she is getting into great colleges too).
So, that’s the dilemma. I agree with you. He should pick, and he should pick the one he actually thinks he would enjoy, not based on small changes in weighting. But we can’t do both of those things. Because if he chooses, he’ll choose based on weighting. And if I force him to do what he enjoys, then he’s not the one choosing.
For arts, I think we’re going to compromise on having him take PE as a freshman, which gives him another year to grow up before he needs to make the arts decision.
Then choose your battles and let him pick this one.
Honestly, it’s better IMO to continue the foreign language already started, particularly if he continues beyond level 4. Despite what some 17 year olds put on their college application, you’re not proficient simply from taking the AP class.
Of course for a particular individual, there are other valid reasons to start from scratch.
Guide him through an exercise of weighing the pros and cons of making this type of decision. Have him make a list of the pros and cons of the options he has. And if something like having the highest GPA is a decision factor AND if that factor is more important to him, then that should weigh into the decision making.
Yes. OP was vague about this mystery language he knows but didn’t take in MS. Regardless, if he’s a heritage speaker, or however he knows the basics of the language, my post still applies.