<p>bz2010, I think you are greatly oversimplifying the issue and making some unsupportable conclusions.</p>
<p>I can feel appropriate regret and shame for regrettable and shameful actions taken by my country without being “un-American” or “anti-American.”</p>
<p>In fact, it is because I believe we are, fundamentally, better than those actions that I feel as I do.</p>
<p>I think the most un-American thing you can do is to sully America’s ideals. You know, by torturing people, spying on American citizens, etc. I’m certainly not proud of people who do that.</p>
<p>I agree, Hunt.</p>
<p>McCain’s stance against torture is certainly one reason why I’m voting for him!</p>
<p>Then perhaps you will be disappointed by McCain’s recent flip-flop on the issue?</p>
<p>According to the quote above, Frum’s statement relies on Jan 2005 data – a time when Republicans had a majority in Congress as well as a Republican in the White House. So it isn’t surprising to find more Republicans than Democrats,at that point in time, proud of the government’s actions (or in other words, “proud to be an American.”) Nevertheless, to me, the concept “proud to be an American” is susceptible of so many meanings and nuances, that conclusions of this type are shaky.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone much cares that Nader is in the race. He has gone from being a hero to a spoiler to a has been.</p>
<p>vp- more info please.</p>
<p>:confused:</p>
<p>bz2010: </p>
<p>[Shame</a>, Sen. McCain - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-ed-mcain19feb19,0,4876430.story]Shame”>Shame, Sen. McCain)</p>
<p>No flip flop.
Read his statements here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressOffice.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=1863d120-d46b-b3f4-335c-bad46c47b725&Region_id=&Issue_id=1bd7f3a7-a52b-4ad0-a338-646c6a780d65[/url]”>http://mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressOffice.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=1863d120-d46b-b3f4-335c-bad46c47b725&Region_id=&Issue_id=1bd7f3a7-a52b-4ad0-a338-646c6a780d65</a></p>
<p>I read his statements. He’s a flipflopper. But no worse on this issue than on taxes generally, capital gains tax cuts for the rich, or on immigration.</p>
<p>He’ll do what is necessary to win.</p>
<p>bz2010; I think your description of Dem vs Rep on patriotism and view of government is pretty accurate. Republicans generally believe in self determination while Democrats do lean more towards government and other outside influences. And yes; patriotism is biased based on the fact that you were born in a particular country. That is your culture, history, family, etc… Those in Pakistan, Egypt, USA, Japan, etc… are probably all very patriotic towards their own country. </p>
<p>But, if you look outside of the box, you realize that more people try/have tried/will try to get into the United States; legally or illegally; than almost any other country. There must be a reason for this. I too have lived/worked/visited many countries. 15 to be accurate. The majority of the people native to those countries expressed a desire to visit the United States. There may be many political differences, but more people want to come to the USA than people in the USA wanting to move to another country. So, in that respect, the USA is a better country. Superior to most. Not because my patriotism influences me saying so, but because history and statistics prove it.</p>
<p>Having said that, we aren’t perfect. But, the answer lies within. Stop expecting the Government to fix your problems. If you have personal, economic, social, etc… problems; then take action to change and fix it. As far as the things the government does control, such as the military, then I suggest you or your children volunteer to join the military. Even if for just one 4 year enlistment. Remember, the military is not a “System” or a “They”. It is made up of living breathing and sometimes DYING people. Those generals with certain opinions and positions, use to be the 22 year old lieutenant just out of college. They are the ones that influence the congress, Armed Services Committee, and the president. Volunteer and bring in a different attitude and perspective. If you disagree with the current attitude of how the military is being run. Join and make a difference.</p>
<p>Personally, I have no problem with Gitmo or the military. The ONLY problems we’ve ever had now or in the past; to include vietnam; is that they were forced to be politically correct and appease the politicians. When left alone so the military could do what they do best; e.g. Gulf War Pt1 and WWII, it was a much better result. Not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than getting those who don’t know what they are talking about getting involved.</p>
<p>So, sorry for my cynicism, but I’ve always believed that you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. If you don’t like how the military is operating, then join and make a difference. If you don’t like your economics or other attributes of your personal life, then make a change. Don’t rely on the government to fix it. You can’t just say; “I pay my taxes, therefor my opinion is what matters”. The truth is; military men and woman aren’t for sale. They don’t do the job because you pay them to. They may get compensation for the work they do, but they aren’t doing it because you are paying them to.</p>
<p>Our military is awesome and I believe they have done a great job in Iraq. Just simply great. I am proud of the accomplishments of the men and women in uniform.</p>
<p>It is the civillian leadership that has failed miserably. They have failed the military and the country. The commander in chief and his puppetmaster the vice president have been a disaster. I am ashamed of them.</p>
<p>Agree with the general sentiments about self-determination. That is why I am an independent, neither a Dem nor a Rep.</p>
<p>“Our military is awesome and I believe they have done a great job in Iraq. Just simply great. I am proud of the accomplishments of the men and women in uniform.”</p>
<p>I think they have done a miserable job, with a policy and practice of ethnic cleansing that will reverberate for a generation to come. And for this, the generals (who, starting with General Betrayus, lied consistently to us in 2004-2005) are responsible. They have created Al-Qaeda in Iraq virtually from scratch.</p>
<p>I won’t even touch the allegations of our miltary practicing ethnic cleansing.</p>
<p>I am so dreading this election , like never before in my life.</p>
<p>Christcorp - great post. Thank you.
vp - agree w/most.
mini - ethinic cleansing?? “Betrayus”?? Step away fromthe Kool-ade!</p>
<p>I’m really disappointed in mini’s last post - wow. Waaay off base.</p>
<p>People give too much credit and blame to the president. It doesn’t work that way. We wouldn’t be in the military situations we are/were if not for congress approving and voting for them. What’s more; congress and to vote and approve funding for the continuation of such activities.</p>
<p>I have voted 4 times for a republican; 2 times for a democrat; and 1 time for a 3rd party. Yet, never have I blames a president for the condition of the country. Our country is made up of 3 branches of government. If you don’t understand that, then go back to school and learn it. Nothing is Bush’s fault solely. Neither is anything his accomplishment solely. Same goes with Clinton, Bush, Regan, Carter, etc…</p>
<p>If you are mad at current political, economic and governmental situations, then look at the congress and the courts. Those 2 entities have more influence on our future than the president. If you don’t agree, then this debate can not continue because that is how our government is set up.</p>
<p>On a side note, I find it ironic that some people can say things about out political or military leaders; such as saying “General Betrayus” and no one complains. Is it because it’s the “Republican” side. Yet, when someone makes light and says “Obama Bin Laden”; people get upset. Is it because the democrats are a lot more sensitive than republicans? Just curious.</p>
<p>The “Betrayus” insult is not worth responding to. I don’t find it cute when people twist names to mock someone. You know- the kind of people who say things like Osama for Obama, Shrillery for Hillary, Betrayus for Petraeus. Not very different from the junior high kids who get a kick out of ridiculing someone who might have a name like “Lipschitz…ha.ha… you lip does what?” </p>
<p>I have to say even though I was dead set against the Iraq war from its inception, I was happy to see Bush go with the surge and greatly respected McCain for supporting it. McCain’s plan for Iraq is better than either Obama’s or Hillary’s. But I still support Obama!</p>
<p>Christcorp, you are my new hero…
can you get on the networks and get this message out ??</p>
<p>“The “Betrayus” insult is not worth responding to. I don’t find it cute when people twist names to mock someone.”</p>
<p>I think if you read his testimony, and his articles from October 2004 (link already posted), you’d find the Betrayus appellation absolutely on point, and you would know that it is likely that hundreds of extra American servicemen died because of him. You do know that he is responsible for presiding over the arming of Al-Qaeda in Iraq with tens of millions of dollars in U.S. weapons, don’t you? (Link already posted) (Now if I wanted to insult him, I’d call him what his superior officer Admiral Fallon did - an AKLCS. Link already posted)</p>
<p>As for Betrayus’ ethnic cleansing, I refer you to the latest report of the UNHCR, already posted.</p>
<p>
In many respects, quite true. And consider this: for the past thirty years (or more) the overwhelming majority of judges have been appointed by conservative republican chief executives, with the result that the judiciary is in many respects the most right-leaning part of the government (at least when you ignore the horde of cronies appointed to innumerable Executive Department positions by GWB.)</p>
<p>But you won’t learn that amidst the din of the “Liberal judges are stealing our country!!!” claque.</p>