<p>admitone, I am sure Brown, Columbia and Dartmouth are well known in MA. That’s because they are all located within 150 miles from state borders. I am also sure that they are familiar with some universities with a hefty reputation thanks to their athletics programs (Alabama, Duke, Kentucky, Nebraska, Notre Dame, PSU, OSU, Texas and UNC to name a few) and others thanks to exceptional programs (Johns Hopkins Medical School comes to mind). But are those same lay people in MA familiar with Caltech, Chicago, Emory, Northwestern, Rice, Washington University-SL, Vanderbilt etc… </p>
<p>I guess it is important to define what we mean by lay person. To me, it would be the mid-50% of the overall population. So that already leaves out all lawyers, doctors, members of academe, and a chunk of skilled professionals such as management-level employees in companies etc…</p>
Oh, I do. I’ve lived in two different places in the South.</p>
<p>In NC, everyone is ALL about UNC Chapel Hill. It’s essentially the creator’s gift to mankind, and everyone either graduated from there or aspires to do so. People are also likely to know Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, and other local schools - NC State for sure, and also Wake, App State, UNCG, and nearby publics like Clemson and USC. That’s about it. Usually no Stanford, MIT, Columbia, Penn, or even Davidson/Vandy/Emory.</p>
<p>In TN, people would again know Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, but the big school is UT-Knoxville. Rhodes, Ole Miss, and MTSU get a lot of attention in my part of the state, with some people knowing Vandy and Duke. Again, that’s about it. While they might have heard of a few others, usually schools with major athletics, typically they don’t know how they stack up vis a vis one another.</p>
<p>confidentialcoll, perhaps it is a regional thing. In the Northeast, most people follow professional sports. But in the Midwest and South, college sports are very big. I agree that sports alone do not greatly enhance a school’s reputation on a national level, but it certainly does give it a boost.</p>
<p>“Popularity” from the Latin popularitas > popularis > populus, i.e. “the people,” the masses, the uneducated/uninitiated working class, whose opinion we are supposed to be gauging in this thread.</p>
<p>Understandably, you would have to include popularity in your understanding of prestige. Otherwise, Berkeley undergrad would shrivel up and recede into a corner, since it’s popular but derives all of its prestige from its graduate programs.</p>
<p>Don’t worry, I will offer a counter-argument on your behalf based on semantics. “But, the OP is asking about the ‘top 20 national universities!’ ‘University’ means an institution as a whole, taking into account both undergraduate and graduate programs. Therefore, Berkeley is one of the most prestigious and popular schools in the world!”</p>
<p>Which is a fair and acceptable argument. Doesn’t change, however, that the undergraduate college is popular, but not prestigious. Nor should one confuse the two, as you insist.</p>
<p>So kwu, am I to understand that the majority of influencial members of academe and industry do not think undergraduate degrees from Cal are as worthy as those from other top universities?</p>
<p>Oh. My. GAWDD This thread is so FUNNY. Where is JohnAdams? Ok, so its Alexandre vs JohnAdams vs potential-users-who-will-pointlessly-argue-which-colleges-are-“more better”-than-others.
I’m going to go get popcorn.</p>
[quote]
Understandably, you would have to include popularity in your understanding of prestige. Otherwise, Berkeley undergrad would shrivel up and recede into a corner, since it’s popular but derives all of its prestige from its graduate programs.
[quote]
</p>
<p>It is my understanding that Berkeley derives its prestige from having strong academic department across all major fields. At Berkeley, people don’t care much whether you’re grad or postgrad. Even most research works are Berkeley are done by a combination of professors, postgrad students and undergraduate students. Maybe things are different in other smaller schools, but that is pretty much the case at prestigious government-funded schools such as Berkeley, UMich, UVa, UCLA or Wisconsin, UCSD and the like.</p>
<p>For the veteran ■■■■■■, perhaps, who recognize that you’re trying your damned hardest to get validation for going to a TTT like CalTech, mirite?</p>
<p>^ It’s a certain quality associated with select colleges that young men imagine is irresistably appealing to any average member of the opposite sex. Like when you side up to an attractive woman at a bar and say, “Hi, I go to Harvard”, and she immediately responds, “Oh! Let’s get a drink.” </p>
<p>Now of course this won’t work if you say, “Hi, I go to Harvey Mudd College.” Unless she happens to be a serious engineering student, in which case she immediately responds, “Oh! Let’s get a room.” One with free WiFi and a video game console, of course.</p>