<p>“Something to consider: the Air Force Academy is (I believe) the only school on that list founded in the 20th century (1959). That’s a pretty amazing number of Rhodes in a comparatively short time.”</p>
<p>Nothing amazing about the fact that the British have always had a fancy for rum, buggery, and the lash.</p>
<p>“if the sizes of school are factored in”</p>
<p>The ranking is meaningful only if school size is considered. Does someone have the time to do this?</p>
<p>I think it would be more telling to see the list by current year or since 2000 like Venkat is discussing.</p>
<p>^^^ Post #41, What??</p>
<p>^^He’s quoting Winston Churchill’s humorous description of life in the British navy in the 19th and early 20th centuries and applying it to the modern US Air Force.</p>
<p>To the larger point of of the impressive performance of the US service academies in producing Rhodes scholars - it is impressive but not unexpected. All of them have extensive formal Rhodes prep programs and coaches. They identify cadets who are possible Rhodes material early in their time at the academy and groom them all along the way. </p>
<p>The service academies are by no means unique in having Rhodes prep programs, but they take it to a whole new level.</p>
<p>^^^I have heard about other schools who do this as well.</p>
<p>When you do these numbers, also consider what you are counting. Any Rhodes Scholar, or US only? Some schools, especially Harvard, Yale and Pton, excel at enrolling students from other countries, especially Canada and the carribean (and in recent years India) who go on to win Rhodes in those countries. </p>
<p>Does it matter? Depends on the conclusion you want to draw. Just based on numbers, it is much easier to win a Canadian Rhodes in the maritimes than a US Rhodes anywhere. </p>
<p>Also consider that for a kid that’s Rhodes material, attending some schools can make it harder to win, because you’re competing against your own classmates. Because Standford draws so heavily from California, these kids have it especially tough. One can only apply to your region of residence or your region of college. If both are NoCal, it will be tough!</p>
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<p>Even if all of that were true, that simply begs the question of why schools other than HYP are not more attractive to future international Rhodes winners. </p>
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<p>The same would seem to be true of HYP, all of which tend to draw heavily upon the NorthEast. Yet they nevertheless seem to win plenty of domestic Rhodes.</p>
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<p>Wouldn’t it be more informative to measure per-capita Rhodes Scholars by undergraduate enrollment, as opposed to total enrollment? While some do win the Rhodes while as graduate students, the winning criteria takes into account mostly undergraduate performance, as applicants must be younger than 24 years of age to be eligible. To calculate by the total student population is to simply punish those schools such as Harvard, Stanford, and MIT that simply happen to have disproportionately large graduate programs.</p>
<p>Yes, and eliminate the 1000 multiplier to stress what miniscule numbers we’re talking about, even at the “top” schools, therefore how irrelevant this statistic is.</p>
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<p>Data to back up such an assertion? Do you have a point you’d like to make?</p>
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<p>Did you post data to back up your assertion regarding Stanford? Since you did not, why do you feel the need to ask for data from others? </p>
<p>As far as the data to support my assertion, I would simply point out that this has been demonstrated in books such as The Chosen and other works that investigated the Ivy League. Let’s face it: historically speaking, and even today, the power, wealth, and intellectual heft of the country is predominantly located in the NorthEast, and schools like HYP have always tended to draw from the more powerful and the more intellectual. </p>
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<p>I could ask the same question: what point were you trying to make? </p>
<p>I am simply stating that HYP students tend to win many Rhodes winners, something that nobody would seriously dispute. If your assertion is that they supposedly draw from the top students from less competitive geographic regions who may then enjoy a corresponding Rhodes advantage, then that only begs the question of why those students seem to prefer to attend schools such as HYP over other schools. Similarly, if your assertion is that HYP draws Canadian or Caribbean Rhodes winners who benefit from lessened competition, then that again begs the question of why Canadian/Caribbean Rhodes winners seem to prefer to attend HYP instead of other schools. Put another way, why don’t other schools try to attract future Rhodes winners coming out of Arkansas or Canada?</p>
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But they may be far less concentrated in the NE than before. Since 2000,
<p>If we consider also Marshall Scholars, the data since 2000 show the following:
<p>I am probably missing quite a few public schools (and possibly couple privates) but the data I got pertain to only 18-20 top private research Univ.</p>
<p>“Data to back up such an assertion? Do you have a point you’d like to make?”</p>
<p>Isn’t the point simply that regional kids compete against each other for very few of these awards?</p>
<p>I am not entirely sold on the idea of putting data on per capita basis.
Do larger schools like Cornell and public schools have proportionally more people working at their fellowship offices? I thought the application process needs tons of hand-holding and support. Can anyone familiar with the process tell us what role the fellowship office plays?</p>
<p>sakky,</p>
<p>I’m surprised you aren’t aware of these numbers. </p>
<p>According to Stanford’s website, 43% of the undergrads come from CA. </p>
<p>Harvard? 17% from New England. MA would be much smaller still. They seem to define New England as everything above Mid-Atlantic.</p>
<p>FWIW, the Rhodes folks divide CA into two districts. New England is divided into 3 or 4, depending on how H defines New England. This alone means many Stanford kids will compete with other Stanford kids. Much more so than those attending Harvard. </p>
<p>The data speaks for itself, I’m afraid.</p>
<p>Hey sakky, check your email ;)</p>
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<p>Actually, I am quite well aware of those numbers. However, let’s bear in mind that New England as a whole, and obviously Massachusetts in particular, has a far smaller population than California. In fact, California has a larger population than New England and New York state combined. </p>
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<p>And as I said before, all of that simply begs the question of why Stanford can’t draw more of the best students from outside of California. Heck, it’s not even entirely clear whether Stanford even draws the best students within California, as even regarding only those students, many will prefer Harvard over Stanford. Heck, Harvard’s closest cross-admit competitor is Yale, whom Harvard nevertheless beats by a 2:1 margin. </p>
<p>So I agree, the data does speak for itself. Harvard attracts a highly geographically diverse student body, so that simply begs the question of why Stanford can’t do the same.</p>
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<p>Which, as I said, only then raises the natural question of why certain schools are so regionally constrained? Why can’t they draw a more diverse student body?</p>
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<p>And how did Stanford do against Harvard and Yale? </p>
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<p>Yes, but this thread was not about Marshall Scholars, but about Rhodes Scholars. After all, I could probably data-mine my way to find some scholarship award in which HYP were clearly in the lead since 2000.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong - I am not a pro-Ivy or anti-Stanford zealot. Indeed, I have great respect for Stanford. I find Stanford’s rocket-ride from being a regional backwater school of little dispute to one of the elite schools in the world in just a few generations to be nothing short of astounding. </p>
<p>But the fact remains that Stanford does not have the Rhodes legacy that HYP do.</p>
<p>“Why can’t they draw a more diverse student body?”</p>
<p>From years of reading here, it seems like the majority of students choose to be closer, rather than further, from home.</p>