“I know I’ve read that HS counselors are asked to rank the difficulty of a kid’s schedule on the college application.”
This was not a thing when I was a kid. It’s a little disturbing because it adds another layer of bias into the system, which seems like the last thing anyone needs. If the counselor is good, fine, but HS counseling seems like weak link in many schools (rural and urban especially).
It seems like one more thing to game that adds nothing in terms of data.
So what colleges besides Mich? In general, the more elite you look at, the more they can want to see the “Most Demanding” endorsement by the GC. In many cases, it’s a comparative point: you could be, eg, top 5% with a strong gpa, but a VD suggests that the GC thinks you didn’t stretch as much as you could have- or others did.
But 12-16 AP on a non IB path seems nuts. No college is expecting that many stuffed in. And irrelevant APs are little use in either your app or your education in general. Taking the easy APs just for the count isn’t valued. Sorry you’re facing this.
For CS, what matters most is the core math-sci strengths, and those stem-related ECs, some of which should be collaborative. And for any college with any question(s) about the choice of major or your prep for it, careful, meaningful answers.
Imo, electives matter less to adcoms. You need to vet the ones that relate to CS or stem, some are more vocational, not really meaningful in admissions, not necessarily important experiences to the kid.
I don’t blame the GC, it could be some committee. But this is a tough situation.
I don’t know what other colleges at this point. He’s only in 9th grade and while we talk about college in general, he’s not researching them yet or anything. He knows everything counts at this point and he takes school seriously. The only things he has mentioned is MIT, because he knows the name. And he’s also mentioned wanting to be somewhere warmer, which is clearly neither MIT nor Michigan.
He’s in algebra 2 this year, along with English 10. For those, he’ll end up on the IB path for 11th and 12th grade regardless unless he does dual enrollment somewhere. He’s in biology now and chemistry next year. Non IB path would have him take physics in 11th and then AP science in 12th. He’ll get through either iB or AP Chinese, as he likes it and would like to keep learning.
His elective this year is Mechatronics/Robotics and it is a part of the vocational group, but he has enjoyed it and learned quite a bit. Next year, he’ll either have that or Intro to Engineering, which is a PLTW class. His 2nd elective next year is hopefully AP Statistics. I realize electives are not the important thing for getting into a college, but I want him to have space to take a few things that interest him.
For EC, he’s mainly on the robotics team. He’s done it since 6th grade and writes the app for scouting and does programming for the robot. He has lower responsibilities this year for the robot programming, but he’s the only one doing the scouting app. He’ll have a bigger job next year, as there are not a lot of 10th and 11th grade programmers it seems. He was also part of the Cyber Security team. He’s not sure he’ll continue with that though. Otherwise, he’s in the marching band and on the bowling team.
I’ve asked a few friends with older kids and the general consensus is that for UMich from our high school, you really need to do IB. I know of one person who’s a freshman there this year, who was not IB. She had a 4.0 uw and a good amount of AP classes (I don’t know how many). She was deferred and then waitlisted and finally came off the waitlist in May. So I suspect that my son will need to go IB or really load up on all those AP.
“She had a 4.0 uw and a good amount of AP classes (I don’t know how many). She was deferred and then waitlisted and finally came off the waitlist in May. So I suspect that my son will need to go IB or really load up on all those AP.”
You don’t know what her other statistics were.
Also, their stats look so high that it will be a lottery anyway–average GPA is 3.8 something, average SAT is 1390-1530 just Googling it.
I’d guess that they rejected a number of 4.0s based on intended major and essay alone, without respect to AP. Seriously doubt they stacked apps by # of AP classes with IB on top. More likely they grabbed everyone over 3.75 with a certain SAT and went by essays and intended major.
The idea that a 4.0 is waitlisted doesn’t mean “not playing the game well enough”. It means, “didn’t play the right game”. If he’s in love with IB or certain APs I’d support that but consider the fact that he might get more mileage out of spending time on his own character development or even getting a job to show he’s learning real-life skills.
@MmeZeeZee
You are right. I don’t know much else. I do know she was in the top 25 kids of 440 graduates. Ranking is 80% weighted GPA and 20% SAT score. And I know she did not take an AP class in 9th and took 1 in 10th, so could not have had 16 AP total.
I don’t know that he’s in love with IB. But, he generally enjoys school, does well with little effort, and has been in IB since 1st grade, so understands what they look for. I think the way the math program is aligned, he’d be in IB regardless. We have nothing past Calc AB and that will be 11th grade. He’d probably pick AP Physics, so IB Physics is fine. And he’ll be at the AP/IB level for Chinese in 11th as well. English could go either AP or IB. The biggest addition is having the IB History and then either Psychology, Music, or another science (but it might not actually be doable to have the 2nd science).
At my kid’s private high school, they elected not to offer IB because they wanted their students to have more flexibility to take electives. They also didn’t have students take APs until junior year. Their private school regularly sent 40% of students to top 20 schools. I think it is crazy to take so many APs.
My younger kid had to finish up high school at an international school, and she had to do IB in order to get the most rigorous. We were not impressed with the IB curriculum (could be the way it was taught at that international school).
If he takes all IB (or the high number of APs) and gets the most rigorous box checked but still doesn’t get into Michigan, how frustrated will he be that he wasted his high school years? Do you think he (and you) would still think it was worth it even if he ends up going to a college he could have gone to without that box checked?
I think the importance of that most rigorous checkbox probably varies by college. Many colleges that look at apps holistically will likely only see that as one aspect of the application. For example, if you son is a strong band student and excels at his instrument, then he can explain in the app the importance of band (which can affect his other course choices) or other reasons why he chose AP. 6 AP courses junior year is more than expected at most colleges, and I think even the most selective colleges would rank a schedule as rigorous with 4 APs (unless they are all the easiest APs). You could consider calling a few colleges to ask their opinion too.
We had a situation where my kid was in the arts magnet and the magnet class schedule conflicted with most of the APs available. Our GC had never given the ‘most rigorous’ designation to a magnet kid because they just physically couldn’t take that many APs. I went to town on her, showed her that she had blocked my kid from taking APs two years in a row, and got her to check the ‘most rigorous’ box for my kid because he had taken the most rigorous course schedule possible while keeping up his magnet requirements.
He took 8 fewer AP classes than the school’s leader, over the course of 4 years. But considering the workload of his magnet courses I have no qualms about forcing the GC to click that box.
@mom2twogirls I don’t think an IB is “wasting” high school–I do think it’s not a guaranteed ticket to anything other than learning in itself but it’s not a waste. I know I will encourage my own kids to seriously consider it, just not as a means to an end that is by no means guaranteed.
Yeah, I don’t know what he’ll do yet. He’s leaning IB because he wants to do IB. I’m just trying to understand how important that box for difficulty really is and if he should consider it or not. He’s not looking at colleges at this point. Michigan was mentioned because it’s not too far from us and it’s a good school.
It’s just so sad to me that kids feel like they have no choice but to load up on AP/IB classes that they may not be interested in but need the rigor to make themselves feel competitive in the top-school arena. While our D knew she needed to take AP’s, she was driven more by the subject matter and wanting to be in class with similarly minded kids (vs. taking regular level classes that weren’t challenging enough and that were filled with kids who didn’t care) than anything else. We talked her down from taking more than she could comfortably handle while keeping her GPA up and her sports and other EC’s going. She wound up attending the best school she was accepted to, but she would have been fine at any of the others she got into because she would have maximized her experience at any of them. We have to remind ourselves that 1) a top-level school does not guarantee satisfaction or success, either during college or after, 2) most kids have the capacity to flourish where they are planted, and 3) the high school experience can be miserable in the blind pursuit of something whose process is often a complete mystery.
Part of the appeal to the IB diploma is the smaller class sizes with kids they will know well. My son knows a few kids who are intending on doing IB and they are the kids he is most comfortable with and identifies with. Some of his friends won’t do the IB, but many of them will.
I do think it is important for that box to be checked for certain schools if your child wants to be a competitive applicant. I wholeheartedly agree with @Undercrackers 1), 2) and 3)! My son was advised by a college to take 5 APs senior year to show that he continued to challenge himself academically to the fullest–he had taken 4 in his junior year. He decided against it and I agreed with his decision. He wanted to do an internship and that would not allow him to take a 5th AP anyway. His counselor did mark the most rigorous box because of this, but colleges review the transcripts and can make their own determinations too (and compare course rigor with rigor of students from the same high school).
The school that advised my son to take 5 APs is the highest ranked school to which he has applied. He is awaiting a decision. Either way, I don’t think he regrets his choice. I am sure he will do well wherever he ends up.