The Cornell gang rape news reminded me to make my semi-regular post that those involved in Greek life are significantly more likely to be perpetrators (frat men 3 times more likely to rape) and victims (sorority girls nearly 2x more likely to be raped) than unaffiliated students.
Honest question for parents with kids in Greek life. Are you ok with Greek culture? Why pay to have your kids involved?
I mean, I am not OK with this happening, of course.
But I also think this is the sort of situation where it isn’t possible to talk about “Greek culture” as being one, monolithic thing. In my experience, different fraternities and sororities at even the same institution can have notably different “cultures”, and then even more so across institutions.
So when my S24 started dating someone in a sorority as a first year, and that ended up leading to him joining a fraternity in his second year, I did not worry his personal odds of being a perpetrator of sexual assault thereby tripled. Long before that, though, we had discussed these issues and what his reponsibilities were as a young man in college. From my perspective, they do go beyond just not doing anything himself. I think he has the responsibility to watch out for the other people around him, including young women he may not personally know. And if it looks like someone is at serious risk, to try to do something about that.
Of course I can’t really control what he does, but I believe he understands and accepts those responsibilities. And I don’t see any reason to believe his experience with his fraternity has changed that, in his case.
But then none of this is somehow evidence there is no problem at all, with anyone, anywhere. I don’t think it is a problem specifically for him, but I know that is not at all the same thing.
Sexual Assault on Campus: What Colleges And Universities Are Doing About It, a U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs publication.
Yeah, one of the complexities with this sort of situation, in my view at least, is there are not neat dividing lines between different layers of “culture”. Greek culture is part of US college culture. US college culture is part of US culture in general. US culture is part of modern global culture. This is not intended to suggest there isn’t a problem, but I don’t see the problem as neatly contained to Greek culture.
That also is not intended to suggest I would have an issue with someone who personally wants to avoid any associations with Greek organizations, for this or other reasons. I would, though, gently suggest that isn’t going to be enough, that as long as we are embedded in these cultures at any level, we are still in some way associated with it, and still responsible for doing what we reasonably can as individuals to try to help make it less of a problem.
I think the higher incidence of rape is a symptom of a foundational cultural problem with Greek life, which is to say: fraternities and sororities are clubs whose memberships are based on nothing other than social status. That organizing premise of social exclusivity lays the foundation for a tremendous amount of toxic behavior—and a lot of pressure to accept/participate in that behavior. All of which is to say that not all fraternity members are rapists and not all sorority members are victims of sexual assault, but I believe that the incidence of acts like sexual assault (and hazing and other toxic behavior), passive or active acceptance of it, and pressure not to report or stop that behavior is going to be higher in groups premised purely on social exclusivity.
As parents, we were always very open about our feelings about Greek life, and (probably not surprisingly) neither of our sons expressed any interest. Had either of them wanted to pursue Greek life, we would have tried to dissuade them and would not have given them money for dues. But we also would not have attempted to forbid it; ultimately, they are adults who have to make these decisions on their own.
I was in a sorority, one son and two daughters participated in Greek life as well. My closest friends at college were my friends before we joined, but my daughters met some of their closest friends there (they of course had friends outside of it, one daughter had 5 roommates and most were in different ones, her best friend was as well). As for not letting them, once they turned 18 we still gave advice, suggestions, but there was no not letting them do anything. As for paying, we didn’t pay for things like Greek dues, eating out, Ubers, spring break trips, cars, because they were adults. I do find it odd when folks put down something they haven’t experienced. There are usually misconceptions.
That’s dated December 2005. Clearly the response to the title is “not enough” given where we are 21 years later.
In the words of many, many immigrant mothers: “Why would we pay for you to make friends?!” 
Like any culture, Greek life has many benefits and traditions that are worthwhile. But the negatives outweigh the positives in my opinion. Too many incidents of hazing, sexual assault, and intoxication. Too much emphasis on social status, looks, thin-ness, conformity. Too much exclusion.
The Cornell case is absolutely sickening.
Anyone on a campus is at risk of sexual assault, and I think it is important to realize that, but the group behavior at certain (many?) frats seems to intensify that, of which the Cornell case and their group chat is a really horrible example. Not one of the apparently 50 or so men who received that Snapchat did anything to stop it even if they didn’t take part. What is this mindset that not upsetting your frat bros is more important than stopping what was going on?
That organizing premise of social exclusivity lays the foundation for a tremendous amount of toxic behavior—and a lot of pressure to accept/participate in that behavior.
I like your thoughtful response and IMO this statement is/should be more of the focus of a general conversation on Greek Life than the absolutely horrific incident at Cornell that no good person would ever condone. FWIW I sort of agree with your statement, and that’s certainly a negative of Greek Life. I was never in a sorority and didn’t know much about them growing up, but I have a daughter in one now and IMO there are also positives.
My child is shy an slow to make friends, but she has always succeeded in making good friends over time. She sort of rolled her eyes at the idea of joining a sorority but did it anyway because so many girls at her school do so and TBH she was off to a slow start socially (her school sorority recruitment is second semester). She did rush, hated the process but engaged anyway and joined a sorority. Being in a sorority gave her an immediate social framework - parties to go to, service activites, chapter meetings. That kind of structured activity has always really helped her overcome her natural shyness and find her social footing. Of course there are other kinds of clubs (she joined some of those too) but I think the social engagement of the sorority is what really helped transform her first year experience. She now has several close friends in her sorority, including some of her roommates. She goes to their events, but it doesn’t define her whole social existence. It just gave her a place to start.
People have all sorts of different experiences, and the culture can be very different at different schools. But in general I agree that I don’t like the “organizing premise of social exclusivity” AND, still, being in Greek Life has helped my daughter make the most of her college experience.
Being part of a fraternity is akin to being in a college in that you can only attend one. (or… typically only attend one…). So you know all about your school/fraternity, but there is a lack of direct knowledge of how others operate.
During my four years, our smallish fraternity (~20 members) faced no hazing or sexual assault complaints. Not even rumors. My biggest worries were having enough pizza (on time, too!) for the Super Bowl parties and getting the monthly newsletter out on time. A few stumbled off our front porch at the end of the night, but nobody drove in that condition. To our knowledge nobody was harmed as a result of our social gatherings.
Obviously that’s not the case at every fraternity, and for those involved in such behavior, they need a Come to Jesus moment: do a better job of screening pledges for behavioral issues, have strict risk management training and processes in place, and enforce good behavior.
Maybe don’t force a kid to do a keg stand when he’s already blowing 0.20. Just a thought. Have fun, but keep it safe.
It concerns me that the bad apples seem intent on taking the shine off all the good that the Greek system does: community service initiatives (we did a project every semester), typically an emphasis on academic achievement/staying in school, opportunities for business-like leadership responsibility (I was Rush Chair and VP of Alumni Relations at different points), learning how to conduct an orderly and efficient meeting, event planning and execution, etc.
Being a part of any club where your membership grants social opportunities while relying on loyalty to the group puts you at risk of engaging in either group behavior that goes against your own morals or not reporting incidents that would “upset” the system ( why hazing exists) While I think this is rampant on the Greek system ( which I was part of and saw first hand), let’s not forget that it is also an issue with athletic teams. Especially those where their members are worshipped as idols and protected by coaches and administration.
On a positive note, I have a good male friend that did report his own fraternity brothers for rape. He brought the girl to the police station and was a witness.
Our current situation (as in, right this week) is similar to yours. D26 is a freshman at UCSD, which is burdened with the monikers “UC Socially Dead” and “UC Sad and Depressed.” While this has not seemed to be the case with D26’s interactions with her suitemates so far, she is in the rush process right now (I went to a SLAC without Greek life, so know very little about the process). Would I prefer she not rush? Yes. But is she more social than I was? Also yes-- I was perfectly happy to stay in the dorm and listen to music with friends on Saturday nights.
I “very much do not vibe” with what I see on social media about sorority culture, and that is all I will say about that. But yeah, she’s 18, very responsible, doesn’t drink to my knowledge (DH and I don’t either) or if she does, knows her limits, and most importantly, is a very different person than I am. I’ve had to do a lot of work about that. And her perspective is that Greek life at UCSD is not the same as it would be at… other schools. So, we’ll see… maybe she’ll try it for a year and decide that it isn’t for her. Or maybe she’ll love it, who knows.
Fraternities are also associated with greater alcohol consumption, and alcohol consumption tends to worsen awareness and judgement. That suggests that “drunken fraternity parties” are environments where there are more easy victims and more poor-judgement perpetrators. More easy victims also makes things easier for predatory perpetrators.
In a recent speech at Cornell where she addressed students, AOC described her first few social events at college. She recalls being groped within 30 seconds of arriving at one school-sponsored party, and then seeing what she called a “sexual assault factory” full of incapacitated young women in various states of undress at an MIT party she also briefly attended.
And it is an issue with Marching Bands. There was a hazing case in Florida where the victim died.
Some schools without Greek Life have a facsimile in athletic teams.
Yes, unfortunately there does not seem to be an easy way to stop young college men from sometimes grouping together, probably getting intoxicated, and then sometimes abusing women, with either the active or tacit permission of others in the group.
Which doesn’t mean we have to ignore the problem, but as a parent not in college, I do tend to focus on the specifics of what my kid can do as an individual to be aware of the problem, and then take action as warranted.
This is a great point.
In the Cornell case, there were allegedly 50+ students in the WhatsApp chat in which one of the seven men advertised that there was “free p$&sy” available at the frat house. (It got more graphic.)
Any one of those 50 individuals should have known to report this to the police, and should have alerted the frat leaders of what was happening on their property immediately.
At least one of chat participants had the instinct to take screen photos of the exchange. What a pity that person didn’t think to try to stop the actual harm from taking place.
Yup, I’ve seen this case being talked about in the context of the Cornell one.
LSU’s Office of Civil Rights & Title IX found the player responsible for the rape, but reduced his punishment following an appeal, citing the absence of “malice” or “force” and determining that the rape was “an error in judgment,” according to internal documents obtained by The Advocate.
I think that’s true and a very good point.