Not sure if the same standards would be put the sorority house? How many underage girls even use fake ID to get drink?
I didn’t say they were safer. I don’t have numbers on that. All I know is that they don’t function on the Sleep-Away Camp model where college aided and abetted partying is part of a school’s draw. Individuals may still be raped at outside apartments, outside parties etc. The improvement I see is that reporting will not go through the schools which have a vested interest in covering things up.
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I was specifically referencing Chi Phi.
But yes, I think all greek houses, sports houses, dorms, “off campus” housing should be dry/drug free for those underage, and that it is actually policed, enforced, and that there are repercussions. There should also be big repercussions for students using fake IDs.
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Bigger repercussions for commercial establishments which knowingly accept fake ID’s.
I was out of state this summer and bought a six pack of beer. The cashier asked for my driver’s license-- I said “are you kidding me?” and she said “if we lose our liquor license, I lose my job.”
I am in my late 60’s and look it. The stories about bars, restaurants, liquor stores, grocery stores near college campuses which accept clearly doctored ID’s in lieu of a government issued card-- shut them down.
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What about me? I wasn’t a drinker. But my college experience was very negatively influenced by reporting an attack. To my knowledge, the people in the assault weren’t intoxicated either. Or at least they didn’t seem to be. I actually had time to speak to the women for a short time while the perpetrator was dressing before he barreled back into the hall and dragged her into his room. She seemed totally sober.
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One solution doesn’t solve all problems. It will definitely help with a subset of this issue. Is anyone denying that?
If the South side of Chicago is considered risky, I will tell my kids to not go there. It doesn’t mean there isn’t other crime on a New York City subway — that requires separate behavior/ solutions/ caution.
I was already employing all the behaviors/solutions/cautions. What could have helped me is the following:
- If the perpetrator had been taught not to see women’s bodies as something he was entitled to.
- If the Dean hadn’t cared more about this rich male perpetrator than he cared about all the women the perpetrator harmed.
- If the perpetrator’s teammates hadn’t believed that backing their friend and bullying me was acceptable.
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This.
Women should be able to consume alcohol without worrying about being raped.
Women should be able to be alone at a bar and not worry about being raped.
Women should be able to dress provocatively and not worry about being raped.
Women should be able to walk/run in isolated areas and not worry about being raped.
Women should be able to be outside at dusk/dawn and not worry about being raped.
Women should be able to wear headphones and not worry about being raped.
Suggesting that women should alter their lives in ANY way to avoid rape just confirms EXACTLY what the problem is.
Treating women as heroes for reporting instead of as if they did something wrong, more aggressive prosecutions (in many states, rape kits sit on the shelves for YEARS - unacceptable!), harsher penalties - regardless of the age of the rapist, making it a crime to dox rape victims, harass or victim shame them online (and actually pursue those charges) - these are steps that women deserve.
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I’m finding many of these comments are veering into DARVO territory
Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. It’s usually a defense tactic, but when society views assaults this way, it’s no wonder the tactic is so successful..
“DARVO is a term coined by psychologist Jennifer Freyd in the 1990s to describe how people accused of abuse often respond: deny it, go after the accuser, then cast themselves as the real victim”
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I love the assumption by many here that because you’ve never heard someone talk about experiencing a sexual assault, it never happened. Are you living under a rock?
In this anonymous space I will say that I’ve been sexually assaulted twice and I’ve shared this with no one in my life. The one instance was at the hands of a boyfriend, the other by a stranger in my place of work. I didn’t report.
I can recall being viewed as a sexual commodity by men at the age of 12. I vividly remember being at a go cart course with my niece when she was 13 and a group of men elbowing each other and whispering as she walked by. What’s so disgusting is that some people will always be asking “ what could you have done differently?”
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Rape is not about sex. Rape is about POWER. I firmly reject the notion that we should accept a certain amount of rape as a baseline.
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Not trying to provoke. But my perception is that you’re letting perfect be the enemy of progress. All women should feel safe, and the rape rate should be zeroe, I think we all agree. But there is low-hanging fruit to be picked, actions that can be taken to improve the situation now.
Why not severely punish the user of the fake ID? They are the responsible party.
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All these also should be done. One is not a replacement for the other.
I am not going to the southside of Chicago thinking that all those people have been raised well, and have no mental health issues etc. I just won’t go to the southside if I had a choice. Why should I put myself in that position?
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In the incel manosphere universe that spawned this opinion, there are two types of women. “Madonnas”(your mother, sister, daughter, and other churchgoing going, modestly dressed women that are subservient to men) and “whores” . And whores deserve what they get So while they say there should be zero cases of rapes, what they really mean is that the “pure” women should be protected (especially from immigrants and “deviants”) and it’s not really rape for the others .
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Not sure how such extreme exaggeration is helpful for the dicussioin.
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I take it that “southside” is a not terribly original euphemism for “a place where Black people live”?
Why would you post this? Would you not attend the Metropolitan Opera because the parking garage abuts a public housing project? Have you never walked the Freedom Trail in Boston because it is adjacent to a “diverse” neighborhood as you wander through the charming cobblestone streets? London- best to avoid entirely. Los Angeles- hard to get to the Getty (other than by boat? disembark at the foot of the Palisades?) without going through the kind of neighborhoods you apparently disparage.
Boy you’re missing out!
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I’m sorry you’ve been through all of that. And thank you for sharing it.
I’ll do the same here–I’ve shared this with no one previously, other than two people at the time it happened.
I chose a college with no Greek life purposefully. And then I got there and realized the clubs and teams created similar environments (not the same, but similar). I drank in college, often a lot. I was 18, 19 years old, away from home and on a small campus where no one left campus–so lots of dorm parties. And so, my first year I hooked up with a guy visiting campus, he was visiting a friend of mine who was part of a club team. We were both drunk. I went further than I would have sober, though we didn’t have penetrative sex. A year later, he was back to visit campus. I wasn’t drinking that night because I had a big paper to write but met a group out for a bit as a study break. He was there, and drinking. He remembered me and I remembered him. I didn’t want anything to do with him and didn’t interact much. When I left to walk back to my dorm he offered to walk me back. I said no thanks, it was a short walk. He came anyway. When we got to my door I stood outside as long as I could hoping he would get bored and leave. No one else was in the hall for me to reach out to. Finally, I had to go in and he walked right in behind me. Fight, flight, freeze, fawn? I was all fawn and freeze. I’m sure he thought he was flirting. I’m also sure he thought that since we’d been together a year ago, there was no reason I wouldn’t want it again. I’m sure he didn’t see my tears. He was drunk and in his own world. And twice my size.
Did I say no? No. Did I ever say or indicate yes? Also no. How it could be enticing for him to be with someone literally silent and frozen on a bed, I’ll never know. This time it went further than the year before. It ended, he left, and I finished my paper.
The next day I approached my friend (his friend too) and told him how uncomfortable the situation made me–though not what fully happened–and got the response “yeah, he said he probably wouldn’t see you again next time he’s here.”
It took me a year to put the word rape against what happened. A year of “what if I’d…” “why did I…” A year before I really understood that he was the problem, not me.
That was 36 years ago. I remember every detail. Sometimes I regret that I wasn’t drunk that night because maybe then the memory wouldn’t be so clear.
I would put all my money on the fact that this guy had done this before or did it again afterwards. And I’d also bet he’s never once, in his life, thought of himself as a rapist.
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I just want to say that I’m so touched with the openness, vulnerability and courage that women are showing on this thread by sharing their experiences. It seems to me that it’s in an effort to try to explain what it’s like from a woman’s perspective.
I’m also struck with how these traumas stay with us our whole lives, decades and decades later.
Thank you all for sharing your stories. I just want to reach out and hug every single one of you.
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Maybe you missed the part about using a quote from incel and the manoserve. They are not ashamed about what they believe
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