The Dean of Faculty may agree with you.
“ Dean of Faculty Chris Schaffer wrote that he opposed the resolution in a comment on the resolution’s website.
“When we make a judgment this consequential, we should state clearly what has failed and what we expect to change,” Schaffer wrote. “This resolution falls short of that standard. It does not articulate the specific failures underlying its judgment or the consequences it seeks. It leaves each of us to supply our own reasons and imagine our own remedies.”
Ortiz and several other professors will host a press conference regarding the Faculty Senate’s next steps.
“This is a new day for this university where people who are victimized are going to be able to tell their stories,” Ortiz told The Sun.”
Have not read all 902 posts but don’t know if anyone has mentioned the frat hazing scandal at NC State. It is utterly disgusting and i don’t know why anyone would want their son to be in a frat.
wow - we continue to read stuff like this - eating vomit. No way in hell I’d ever do that. Ever. I’d have just walked away.
Sad these kids are so hard pressed to fit into - really - this buying of friends (as I’ve always seen it) and in some case arranged relationships - not 100% but often kids from one fraternity will connect with girls from a related (like they have events together) sorority, etc.
I just don’t get it.
My daughter was Greek - and well, I just don’t get it - but she had a generally positive experience although it seemed to slacken (for her) in the final few years - ie she wasn’t totally into it given what she saw it to be but still remained in good standing.
Whoo boy. From reading these texts, it really does sound as if Jane Doe got very angry when she was uninvited to the frat’s Halloween party, by the frat president, nearly two weeks after the intoxication and group sex incident at the frat. Until that happened, the texts sound as if her main concern was her reputation.
This is all so awful. They all were behaving like animals, worse than animals. It’s a great argument for simply banning residential frats altogether, although the argument for making them all go co-ed is a good solution, too. I cannot see this happening in a co-ed house.
I just don’t get it. When you think about how smart and high-achieving these kids all had to be, to get into Cornell, and then to behave like this? From the texts, it sounds as if this is a relatively common occurrence, although maybe not to the point of texts inviting all the brothers in to rape an incapacitated young woman.
Plenty of high achievers in various areas have gotten into sexual misconduct scandals, so those with tendencies toward sexual misconduct can be found across all levels of achievement.
In addition, those applying to Cornell from high school are unlikely to have any kind of record of sexual misconduct, since the more supervised environment of high school and home with parents limits the opportunities for such, and those who do get caught while in high school are probably focused more on staying out of juvenile hall than applying to colleges.
I think there is evidence that this is not true. Juvenile records are sealed, but there are enough cases of young men (college and beyond) who once an accusation is leveled, turns out there were incidents in HS. There is no such thing as “limits the opportunities”. There are teenagers who assault younger siblings (of both genders). There are teenagers who assault kids they are babysitting for, supervising at a summer program, working as an assistant coach at a basketball camp, etc. And the very tragic case of the young man who murdered his stepsister while they were on a cruise. What “opportunities” are you even thinking about? She was asleep in her cabin.
You are perpetuating the stereotype of “staying out of juvenile hall”. Wealthy parents hire top notch lawyers and the risk of ending up incarcerated is close to zero. Just read the nauseating case in Oklahoma-- Jesse Mack Butler. Not one victim but TWO.
It’s not unlocked. I have an account now.
You are saying weeks after she was allegedly assaulted she was upset she wasn’t invited to a party ? Like she wanted to continue socializing?
I remember realizing that there were 2 boys that my son played with that didn’t realize that no meant no. I saw this in the way they played, in the way they interacted with their parents, and in the way the interacted with other adults. I even mentioned to the principal when I got a call praising my son for “doing the right thing” after an interaction with one of them that it was nice that I got that call, but I never wanted to receive one again, because I wasn’t the parent that should be getting a phone call. I was even bold enough to mention that if the kid didn’t learn the meaning of “no” in the next few years, I feared for the girls he dated.
Both were recruited (only D3) athletes out of high school with coaches wrapped around their fingers. I can almost assure you they have not changed. It’s easy to spot when you know what to look for. But it’s also very easy to turn a blind eye.
Hasty Pudding is a hybrid organization. First of all, it is very closely associated with the university, unlike the Final clubs. Second, most of Hasty Pudding is performing arts - the theatrical group, and the Krokodiloes. Yes, there is the social club, too, which is I think the only social club that freshmen can join (Final clubs take people beginning in sophomore year), so some people who are interested in social clubs wind up joining Hasty Pudding social club in freshman year, and then move on to the Final clubs). Although they all share the clubhouse and attend events and functions, the two performing arts groups attract a different membership than the social club. I think that the atmosphere of the Theatricals changed greatly when they were forced to go co-ed, with the last straw being Mila Kunis, who was being honored as their Woman of the Year, making a last minute threat to withdraw, if the Theatricals didn’t announce that they were going co-ed.
My point is, Harvard’s hands were pretty clean, when they were trying to force all the off-campus social groups to go co-ed, including the Final clubs. I think they had to give it up because the very powerful alumni of such groups so strongly opposed going co-ed.
Not in my opinion. Harvard tried to ban single sex clubs, whether on or off campus, in 2016. Hasty Pudding didn’t allow women to have acting roles, in an organization all about acting, until 2019. I don’t think the club was getting letters about not writing letters of recommendation for members.
Harvard never technically enacted a total ban on single-sex organizations, but it did implement a highly restrictive sanctions policy announced on May 6, 2016. [1]
Rather than outlawing the clubs directly—as they operate independently off-campus—the university penalized undergraduates who joined them. (emphasis mine)
The Penalties: Effective with the freshman class entering in the fall of 2017, any student who joined an unrecognized single-gender social organization (including all-male or all-female final clubs, fraternities, and sororities) was barred from holding campus leadership positions, serving as athletic team captains, or receiving required dean endorsements for prestigious fellowships like the Rhodes and Marshall scholarships.
The policy was designed to pressure these legacy institutions into adopting coeducational membership structures voluntarily.
Following severe pushback and federal lawsuits filed by several fraternities and sororities,
Harvard completely rescinded the policy on June 29, 2020. The administration dropped the rules because the Supreme Court’s landmark Bostock v. Clayton County civil rights ruling made it clear that Harvard’s sanctions themselves constituted illegal sex discrimination under federal law.
So you think Harvard was justified in telling their students what organizations OUTSIDE of school they could join? How about some single sexed clubs like Knights of Columbus, the Elks Club, Girl scouts/Boy scouts (at the time single sex). The only groups Harvard seemed to care about were the Greek organizations. Harvard didn’t recognize them anyway, so why should they care?
But what I was getting at is that schools can’t just ban these organizations as many have suggested they should. They can refuse to recognize them as student groups, they can prevent them from signing out a conference room, or even take down their posters from telephone poles. They can require all students to live on campus (if they have the dorm space) so they can’t live in Greek housing. They can pass standards so strict that any student convicted of hazing or underage drinking, or in some other way violating a school rule is immediately dismissed, but they’d have to have the same rules for all students.
That is correct. While Harvard never enforced penalties against any students between the policy’s implementation in 2018 and its official rescission in 2020, it still existed as active university policy throughout that period.
I’ve been away from the forum for a few days - not sure if anyone has posted this - hazing at tOSU:
An Ohio State University fraternity is being investigated for a potential hazing incident after video of two young men seemingly on fire circulated online over the weekend.
It has also had a concerning history of incidents over the last 20 years, culminating in a number of deaths, according to a 2013 Bloomberg report that dubbed it the “deadliest frat.”
The report from Bloomberg noted that there were nine deaths related to drinking, drugs and hazing between 2006 and 2013, which it said was more than any other Greek organization. It added that more than 100 universities had disciplined Sigma Alpha Epsilon and 15 chapters had been shuttered.
I believe NC State owns its Greek houses (the houses are relatively new to the campus) but their immediate action to physically close the house and require all residents to move out is the way to handle things - sending the message that this behavior won’t be tolerated.
NC State owns the land, but not the house. A non-profit alumni org owns the house.
Note that most NC State junior/senior frat members rent off campus housing, which is why it’s nearly impossible for universities to control fraternity behavior…parties, initiation activities, etc can easily move off campus. Some schools better control greek life (or don’t have it at all) by requiring students to live on campus all four years, but at schools like NC State that’s not possible.
SAE also has more members and chapters than any other fraternity. In my experience there are no “trends” related to national reputation and individual chapters. Each school is different.