<p>bulletandpima,
good point about the lockbox. I forgot about that b/c when we had our house up for sale last year we took the lockbox out after a few weeks. After clearly stating in the listing that the buyers agents needed to MAKE AN APPT FIRST before showing because of our dog, an agent showed our house, called me up and said, “oh, we let your dog out…I just wanted to let you know”
huh???!!!
Nice. :mad:</p>
<p>But then again, we have looked at houses by just calling the listing agent and having him/her let us in; or going to see open houses. We didn’t need an agent of our own just to look. </p>
<p>Also, thinking back to when we bought our current house, I would religiously scan a listing agency’s website and FSBO websites for our city and have my H go by and look at the houses I thought looked promising----I was living out of state at the time. If he liked it (neighborhood, etc) he’d contact our agent to set up a time to go inside. I honestly felt like I was the one looking for houses and our agent just helped negotiate closing, which was great, but he wasn’t really out finding houses for us. I did that and in fact, I found the house we ended up buying!</p>
<p>DrDrewsmom: that just doesn’t sound right. Whenever I have contacted an agency about buying a house, I have had a super response. Typically several individual realtors will be involved in showing houses in different areas. I have probably worked with at least a dozen realtors and only had a problem with one realtor who seemed determined to show me houses that did not meet my requirements. The rest saved lots and lots of time by showing me reasonable choices. With pre-scheduled arrangements, I have been able to see as many as 10 houses in a day and in addition gained lots of new information about the communities.</p>
<p>For my first house over 20 years ago I had a snooty realtor who told me I couldn’t afford anything in the area I wanted so I quit her immediately but found another realtor who was excellent - and showed me how I could find a house in that area which I ended up buying. Later, I had another one who kept trying to show me houses I specifically told her I had no interest in seeing since I had specific requirements. I dropped her and used a realtor friend to just let me look through the MLS myself, I did the drive-bys myself, then used her to see the few I was interested in. </p>
<p>Some are part-time amateurs (even if they passed the exam) and some are full-fledged knowledgable professionals. Like anything else I think there are bad ones, excellent ones, and everything in between.</p>
<p>The main reason to have a realtor in the transaction is for their skills in marketing and negotiation.</p>
<p>If a realtor is skillful as a negotiator, you will “net” a better price even after commissions are paid.</p>
<p>Even in a hot, rising market, when attracting buyers isn’t a problem, the skill to correctly play a multiple offer situation, etc, will pay for itself.</p>
<p>The realtor is supposed to be a FIDUCIARY for the client. Like TheDad, agents often dissuade clients from leaping for the wrong property/ neighborhood in panic or from taking crummy offers. </p>
<p>You just need to find an ethical, effective realtor.</p>
<p>A little clarification of what people are referring to as “buyer’s agents” (and I’m not sure what the newspapers mean either):</p>
<p>Some people talk about the realtor who is finding and showing houses to a buyer and is not the listing broker of the property as being a “buyer’s broker” or “buyer’s agent.” Not so (at least not in MA or NJ). Those realtors are still being paid by the seller, and still have a fiduciary duty to the seller, not to the buyer. They have the financial interest in the sale of the property, since their commission depends on it. And it is their clients who need the disclaimer suggested above.</p>
<p>In the past 15 years or so, a phenomenon of “buyer’s broker” emerged. These are realtors who represent the buyer, and are paid by the buyer, so their income does not depend on any particular deal being closed. Most of these brokers are paid either hourly or flat fee for a certain period of representation, so they get paid even if the buyer buys nothing. These brokers owe their fiduciary duty solely to the buyer; the seller is completely out of it. In MA, I believe that, if acting as a true buyer’s broker, which requires all sorts of paperwork and disclaimers and signed contracts, they are forbidden from splitting commissions or accepting funds from the sellers’ brokers just to avoid appearances of impropriety or conflict.</p>
<p>It sounds like the broker being sued was not in fact a “buyers’ broker” but a regular non-listing realtor working for the sellers by showing houses to its clients.</p>
<p>in VA, we have designated or dual agents. In all my years I have never seen anyone be a “designated” agent for a buyer. Designated agents can not go into a house that is listed by the realtor or the company, thus you are losing an ability to see all of the properties. Unfortunately people do not understand that we have a fiduiciary duty even as a dual agent. First it is incredibly rare that you will be on both sides of the fence…I only know of a handful of realtors who have been on both sides. Secondly we cannot disclose any issue, such as they can only pay this much or this is their bottom $$$, it is an ethical issue where we would lose our license, thus our paycheck, if you are successful would you risk it for a couple of thousand?</p>
<p>I have bought and sold 2 homes in NC, using the same realtor. I found her on-line b/c I liked the house. I signed a contract and said you will reduce your rate to 4% b/c that is better than the 2.5% you would get if someone else bought it. When I sold the home through her, after trying FSBO for a mo., I cut her rate again, b/c she already made money off me, and the three friends I referred to her…there was no argument from her.</p>
<p>As a realtor, I drop my rate for my sellers if I am on both transactions, I give it voluntarily without them asking. I can control the seller’s commission, not the buyer’s side. By law, I can not give a kick back, it is illegal, and for that reason whatever is in the listing contract is what I must accept as pmt., I cannot go back and say here’s some money.</p>
<p>Most Buyer’s Brokers is know as Exclusive Right to Buy. That means the Realtor will be paid no matter what out of the Buyers pocket, typical for FSBO.</p>
<p>That also exists on the selling side, allowing the homeowner to keep it as a FSBO, but if the Realtor brings in a client than they get a commission.</p>
<p>“By law, I can not give a kick back, it is illegal, and for that reason whatever is in the listing contract is what I must accept as pmt., I cannot go back and say here’s some money.”</p>
<p>That’s interesting. Does that mean that the Buy Side Realty site that I linked to above would not work in Virginia? They state:
</p>
<p>I wonder how many states this would actually work in.</p>
<p>It looks like this highly regulated industry often has fiduciary duties (or LACK of fiduciary duties) that are unclear to people who think they are clients of one or more of the actors in the transaction of buying or selling a house. No wonder some people get upset and sue. Maybe more clarity on who owes what duty to whom would help people understand their trade-offs better before they enter into a transaction.</p>
<p>The last few posts illustrate an important point: real estate practices & custom vary widely from state to state.</p>
<p>In California, an Agency Disclosure form, outlining the duties of a Seller’s Agent, Buyer’s Agent, or Dual Agent representing both sides must be reviewed and signed before doing any substantive business with a client, no later than just prior to either filling out the listing agreement or filling out an offer. Agents have fiduciary responsibility to their clients, including both sides if acting as Dual Agent. Moreover, fiduciary duty aside, agents have an obligation to “honest and fair dealing and good faith” to <em>both</em> sides even if representing only one side. Note: agent in this context means “company,” I as an individual am technically a “sub-agent” but all the duties incumbent upon the company accrue to me as an individual practitioner.</p>
<p>I can give credits to either party in a transaction. The most common place where I give credits is if I think one side is being unreasonable in the resolution of the physical inspection and a couple of hundred dollars will make the other side agreeable. As with B&P, if I’m representing both sides, I cut the commission up front. I don’t represent both sides often and frankly, while the paycheck is good, it’s difficult to do well; I’m much more comfortable when I can represent one side full bore without worrying about being fair to the other.</p>
<p>I don’t have to be a “Buyer’s Agent” to represent only the Buyer and have fiduciary responsibility in that direction.</p>
<p>My recollection of NJ law (yes, even I had my real estate license back in my youth when it was believed that there was a lot of easy money to be had simply by referring friends to fulltime agents) is that even when you are working with the buyer, your responsibility is to the seller - and you had to get the buyer’s signature on a form to verify that they were aware of this. This lack of representation for the buyer makes the concept of Buy Side Realty look pretty attractive.</p>
<p>As to ethics, I’m sure that all the agents on this board are model agents. However, that is not always the case. Last year when we were in Florida we became semi-serious about buying an investment/vacation condo down there. In talking with the agent that we were working with and her cohorts, they were telling us all of the “inside” stories about the clients that they had listings with: who was desperate because they were terminally ill, who had rejected an offer of $X but was now re-thinking it, who was getting ready to drop their asking price, etc. I’m sure that most of what we heard was unethical or illegal to be told to us. It was done in such a casual manner that I figured it was the norm for the office. I just made a mental note that should I ever be in a position to have a property in the area to be listed for sale that I would not deal with that office.</p>
<p>Best thing for any perspective buyer or seller, go to <a href=“http://www.realtor.com%5B/url%5D”>www.realtor.com</a>
This site will allow you to look at homes, and tell you what your rights and responsibilities are as a buyer or seller for your state. It will also show what the Realtor obligation is…most importantly, make sure your realter is a REALTOR…there is a difference, and as a buyer/seller you have more recourse actions for REALTORS, we have to adhere to county/state/ and national board regs, a realter just has a license and is not under the NAR regulations</p>
<p>I don’t think letting you know that a seller may be motivated is betraying a trust. It’s selling and letting you know that if you act quickly you might get a “deal” is savvy marketing. Anyone who want to be the first to sell has to be willing to take the lowest price. Selling quickly for less reflects reality and the agents are helping move you along to act. It’s still up to the seller to decide if the offer is enough.</p>
<p>This is not completely on the topic, but I was thinking about this the other day. The web site [Zillow</a> - Real Estate Valuations, Homes for Sale, Free Real Estate Information](<a href=“http://www.zillow.com%5DZillow”>http://www.zillow.com) can be used to get approximately prices of houses by entering an address. I thought it would be cool if this data set could be downloaded into my Garmin (or other GPS) so I could drive around any random neighborhood in my area to see ballpark prices of homes. I know the zillow data is not that precise, but it can definitely be used by someone moving to a new area to get an idea of which neighborhoods you can afford. Alternatively, data from [REALTOR.com</a> - Real Estate Listings & Homes For Sale](<a href=“http://www.realtor.com%5DREALTOR.com”>http://www.realtor.com) could be used, and it could even bring up the remaining details of a listing, if you wished.</p>
<p>Anent Barrons’ remark about letting prospective Buyers know that a Seller is motivated, what I tell Buyers is something I work out with Sellers. E.g., “They’re motivated because they’re in escrow on a house, the purchase of which is contingent upon the sale of this condo. But while they’re motivated, they’re not crazy.”</p>
<p>Translation: they really really need to sell. Bring us a reasonable offer and we’ll work with you. But if you think you can get it for $100K less than asking price, have a nice life.</p>
<p>I would suggest <a href=“http://www.realtor.com%5B/url%5D”>www.realtor.com</a> these are actual listings. In VA go to <a href=“http://www.homesdatabase.com%5B/url%5D”>www.homesdatabase.com</a>. Many of the listings are under contract or have been recently sold, thus they will not show up on our listings. Both of these sites are free, and are listings that a realtor has actually listed. Also check your state site…ie. <a href=“http://www.njar.com%5B/url%5D”>www.njar.com</a> (NJ), <a href=“http://www.ncar.com%5B/url%5D”>www.ncar.com</a> (NC) <a href=“http://www.scar.com%5B/url%5D”>www.scar.com</a> (sc), etc.</p>
<p>“I don’t think letting you know that a seller may be motivated is betraying a trust.”</p>
<p>No, neither do I, but to get into specific details (e.g., terminal illness) to me is crossing the line. Also, as a seller, I would not want it broadly known what offers I had previously come close to accepting and was now re-thinking - especially when that price was considerably lower than the asking price. To have that kind of insider information relayed to a potential buyer to me is unethical.</p>
<p>Exactly The Dad. Good agents give some clues as to what the sellers needs are and that is just good selling. If the seller wants to close quickly you let the buyer know that extra consideration might go to a 4 week close instead of 60 days. Does not mean you are going to give it away but it helps move things along. Buyers don’t want to bid in a vacuum and need some information. It’s not an auction.
As a buyer I always try to find out as much as I can about the seller. When did they buy it, how much did they pay. How old are they, how long has it been on the market, any offers etc etc.</p>
<p>“Buyers don’t want to bid in a vacuum and need some information.”</p>
<p>Then put it in the listing. If a seller is motivated, listings around here will state it. If you guys are saying that the type of information that was given to us is above-board from an ethical perspective, then perhaps I will need to re-think my options when it comes time to sell my house. As a seller, I would NOT want someone bidding on my house to know what my pricing strategy is. That is counter to all concepts of negotiations.</p>
<p>I personally never ask about personal details from the seller’s agent…I do state my client wants to close by x date, will this be a problem? I also call the other agent out of courtesy, if I think a contract will be coming down. By calling the agent we can move the contract faster and move the process along. </p>
<p>When I list I tell my clients don’t jump over the nickels to pick up the pennies. I go through all of the closing costs they will be charged, this way they know the number they want to walk away with. I never ask what is your number? That is personal…I do state if I come with an offer you now know if that is your number, I will not allow a client to sit on it. Is that mean…maybe, but they made a decision on what they need to walk away with…if it is at the number, IMO accept, if it is not than counter…</p>
<p>I also do not sit in with the mtg. lender, all I want from the lender is the qual letter. This allows my client to be honest, and I have a go ahead knowing that this is what they are qual’d for…again no brainer, we don’t waste time looking at homes that they can’t buy, and when we write the contract, I have a letter from the mtg lender (I don’t deal with brokers…burnt too many times) that states they will give a mtg up to xxx price.</p>