How did you manage to track these down? Mine has her ‘top tier’ set and has relationships with teachers at nearly all of her top picks, but money is a REAL concern, so I’m trying to figure out the best way to identify the ‘best tier two’ – especially based on unfamiliar faculty. I know we can do trial lessons with them, but narrowing it down and figuring out which are the best ones seems like quite a challenge on its own. And of course, we don’t have a state school that’s decent on this instrument.
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Son relied heavily on his private teacher when making his list. We were lucky enough to have a teacher with current knowledge of conservatory teachers, studios, history of merit (academic and music) based on the outcomes of his students from the prior years.
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You could also look at the bios of younger hires in top orchestras and their educational paths. It usually says who they studied with. In my Ds instrument there are a decent amount of people who had 2nd tier or state school for undergrad but then tended to be more expected top-tier schools for graduate school.
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Such a great idea!
These days grad school or advanced teaching is common among musical students. Given that, going to a 2nd tier school for financial reasons can make sense, with the idea of moving to a higher tier school for grad school /post grad education where financially it can be a lot more doable if the student is good.
I would look at the faculty on the instrument (or even other areas). Who did they study with, where did they go to school? What have their alumni done? that can give you an idea of who they are. Obviously it is a plus if the teacher has a view into that world, knows of people and the like or knows who to ask. Sometimes you get lucky, faculty at that second tier school also teach at higher level programs, there are people who teach at Juilliard for example who also teach at other schools that may be more affordable.
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I second what Lefishes said - we actually have a spreadsheet of about 25-30 orchestras, all their “newer” hires, and the schools they went to/profs they studied with. That’s the only way to be able to see trends.
Our instrument also has some kids who, for instance, went to MSU, Temple, Peabody, Oberlin, etc. for undergrad and still get good orchestra jobs; however, it’s also really clear for us that there are 3-4 schools from which nearly all the very top jobs come… and if the kid didn’t go to one of those schools for undergrad, they almost 90% went there for grad school. I wish the school didn’t matter so much, especially since our main ones tend to be expensive, but it is what it is…
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And along the same lines, also look at musicians who have been accepted to high level summer fellowship programs such as National Repertory Orchestra, National Orchestral Institute, etc. These will be new grads or current (usually grad) students.
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yes! We have a spreadsheet with that too! = aspen, PMF, TMC, MAW for us are the big ones
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With the major orchestras there are ties between schools and the orchestra, the Philadelphia orchestra is chock full of Curtis graduates for example, the Chicago used to be full of graduates from a couple of schools. It obviously reflects the level of students at those schools, but it also reflects that members of those orchestras teach at the schools, and they know what they are looking for. Orchestras all have their own culture/vibe/playing style and they look for people who fit that, it isn’t just about high level playing.
Some schools emphasize orchestra, Rice is a good example of that, they have one of the best orchestra programs out there IMO and their kids do tend to do well getting orchestra jobs.
In general terms, given that these days grad school has become very common in music, you can go to an affordable school that may be ‘2nd tier’, and work on your playing, then get into a grad program and be good enough where it is affordable (ie is tuition free or nearly so). Yes, you can be good enough coming out of a ‘2nd tier’ program and get an orchestra job, the problem there is tho you would be up against people who did go to grad school (and of course, you also likely would be auditioning against people who had played in other orchestras and were trying to ‘move up’). In any event, it is a better strategy IMO with music to go to a place you can afford,work your tail off, if in the end you come out and don’t want to do music professionally you are coming out debt free with a college degree, and could go on to grad school in another area, or you could get into a good grad program that is affordable to extend your career. Many years ago when I was a parent trying to figure it all out, there was someone on here who even then said grad school was becoming more and more a requirement (their kid was a vocal student, and there grad school pretty much is a requirement, in part because the voice develops so slowly) and there was some heated debate about it, but to be honest these days with all the factors involved, it may be a good way to get a good music education without accumulating huge debt or any debt.
I am an international student, and I completed my undergraduate studies in my home country with a full scholarship. I was recently accepted to Rice with a full scholarship and some living expenses covered, but I am still waiting for my Yale decision. If I get into Yale, I would receive a full scholarship along with substantial living support, which would significantly ease the financial burden on my parents.
Honestly, I would love to study at Rice because of the professor I want to learn from and its strong orchestral curriculum. If money weren’t a concern, Rice would be my clear choice—but as time goes on, I find myself increasingly torn.
When my son was at Yale the living stipend was pretty small but the school provided many oppportunities to make extra money- teaching undergrads, working in their program in the public schools, admin work. New Haven wasn’t expensive and money didn’t end up a problem. I expect it’s similar at Rice.
I would check the grad school websites- they usually have a section on supplemental work to help with living expenses.
Thank you for your advice. From what I understand, Yale provides an additional $11,000 beyond the TA stipend. With the TA position, I expect to cover my insurance and living expenses without relying on my parents. At Rice, even with a TA position, I would still need to ask my parents for about $15,000.
My family isn’t financially well-off, and my parents are already retired. I might continue on to a doctorate or an artist diploma, and I feel really guilty about asking them for support for that long. That’s why I’m struggling with this decision.
This. As well as the conductor of the Precollege orchestra who happened to play the same instrument as our kid.
At Yale the $11,000 is a pure stipend. It is not connected to any teaching or other work. But you can supplement that by being a TA, teaching other grad students as a secondary instrument, teaching in their school program, or admin in the school. I see you will also owe taxes on the stipend as an international student. And need to pay for health care.
I would be stunned if Rice didn’t also offer work opportunities. They can be useful, by the way, in your future career to have that experience.
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Make sure you understand how the money is designated -grant, stipend, tuition, earnings. International students are limited in how much they can earn, so while 20 hour per week in tutoring may be available, you might not be able to work all those hours under your visa. Just be sure you know what each dollar is labeled.
Texas doesn’t have state income tax while Connecticut does.
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Thank you so much for the advice! I had no idea that state income taxes vary by location. Does the tax rate change depending on the type of funding? I’ll look into the details myself, but I really appreciate the insight!
Thank you all so much. These are great suggestions… especially as the concerns about money and scholarships start to creep in. Looks like I’ll be working on a list!
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