<p>Most students get a mix of As, Bs, and occasionally Cs. Your experience will depend a lot on how smart you are, how hard you work, and how much other time commitments you have. </p>
<p>Most can get Bs by doing the required work and a good amount of studying. A-/A requires a lot of work and some brains. A handful of geniuses get A+s. A lot of freshmen complain because they aren’t used to competing with people at their level, as opposed to coasting through high school. </p>
<p>As for the comment on student quality, I think it would be ideal to compare GPA across schools by major. Cornell definitely has more sciencey students, and especially at the introductory level those classes tend to end up curving to Bs. </p>
<p>Hmmm, really? What kind of eng. classes are we talking about?</p>
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<p>It would be ludicrous to assert that the Cornell engineering student body is on par with Caltech’s or MIT’s. Cornell * engineering * is renown, but I don’t think the student body is…</p>
<p>I think most engineers would agree that getting As in almost any class requires hard work and being smart. Unless maybe if you’re one of those awesome people : )
Grading does get easier during your junior and senior year, but you’ll probably be too busy thinking about jobs or grad school to care. </p>
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<p>I agree with you, but that wasn’t my assertion. The numbers show that Cornell engineering attracts the brightest, but of course nobody doubts that the Caltechs and MITs attract the very top of this group. Nonetheless they are the cream of the crop and are highly sought after in the real world.</p>
<p>I just looked over the median grade reports I have for Fall 2010, Spring 2011 (I think), and they were very high. Nothing to worry about. The vast majority are A, A-, and B+. B’s are relatively rare, B-'s even moreso, and there’s only a couple C’s (C+'s and C’s). I’ve noticed as a general trend that if you try hard in a class, it’s easy to beat the median, since a large section of the student population (especially in intro courses) don’t care very much about studies. I’m sorry if this is a gross oversimplification, but I’ve found it generally to be true. If you have the drive and a good head on your shoulders, there’s no reason to be scared about grades at Cornell.</p>
<p>I ask my teacher to clarify his expirences with Cornell grading, and as I posted before he said he got a 93 in a class and got a B, not an A. So yes the grade can mess you.</p>
<p>Look at my previous post to understand what I am saying.</p>
<p>I’ve read this thread and it begs the question…if all of you who are students or alumni of Cornell feel so ambiguously about the student body and level of rigor there, why should anyone attend? It seems to be considered the ugly stepchild of the Ivies, it’s expensive and the grad school rates aren’t notably high. Wouldn’t it be more prudent to attend a smaller “near Ivy” or go to one of the highly ranked 40 schools that change lives? In Texas, there are 3 small liberal arts schools with med school acceptance rates in the high 90% rates, yet due to the fact that they have large endowments, the price is nearly half of Cornell. I’m asking because my S has been admitted, and he was really excited about Cornell, but I’m wondering if his excitement is misplaced at best, and a terrible economic decision at worst?</p>
<p>The way I read the other responses on this thread is this: Cornell is a top school, but it’s not in contention for being “the best” school. Yes, people at Harvard are generally smarter/better qualified academically. Cornell still provides a world class education</p>
<p>I don’t know of people who attended both Harvard and Cornell that can compare, but I think Cornell’s rigor is near the top compared to other schools. I have friends who transferred from other top schools (BC and NYU) who both said Cornell was substantially more rigorous. Professors who have taught elsewhere also have said that they can get away with assigning more to Cornell students. But I also agree with WongTongTong that often Cornell students can complain too much and that sometimes, the workload isn’t nearly as bad as some make it out to be.</p>
<p>Ultimately, when you go to Cornell, you ARE getting a superior education, with unique opportunities. Your fellow students are generally great, motivated people and enough can’t be said for surrounding yourself with good people. There are so many other clubs/activities as well.</p>
<p>In response to barbarino’s concerns: I don’t mean to disparage Cornell’s academic quality. The student body isn’t filled with geniuses, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist here. I have met many extremely intelligent people, although their ambition is highly variable. Concerning the cost… I can’t say for you for sure, but the only reason I’m not avoiding it for the cost was a financial aid reward. Otherwise, I would’ve chosen something closer to home and cheaper. However, it could be worth the full price, and I do believe that I’m getting a top-notch education; the question of whether it’s worth it for you depends on your income, circumstances, financial aid reward, and personal philosophy. No one else can really make that call for you.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone expressed dissatisfaction with their Cornell education. The only things we’ve said are:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Cornell students are not as strong as Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth students.</p></li>
<li><p>Cornell is no more grade inflated or deflated than any of its peers.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think people also like to come on here to brag a bit…Yeah, Cornell is hard and people complain about grade deflation, but look at me, I am getting 4.0+.</p>
<p>My kid had 790 SAT I, 780 Math 2 (I think), and 5 in BC Calc. She went to a rigorous prep school and she was a math major at Cornell. She got B and B+ in math the first 2 years in college. She said she was stretched to her limit at Cornell. The first year she barely made 3.5. She eventually graduated with 3.7, double majored in math/econ, and minored in gender studies. She got all As in most of non STEM courses (except for a high level art history course).</p>
<p>When it came to job placement, she competed with HYMPS students. She had 3 or 4 offers in the field she wanted to go into. She then went on to her firm’s training program, with 300+ new trainees from around the world. They had exams every Fri and based on the result of exam they were placed in the highest, middle and lowest level. She was consistently in the highest level. She was one of few trainees from NYC who passed every single one of those exams, most of those trainees came from HYMPS and some of the best Unis from around the world. (ok, done with bragging here)</p>
<p>I don’t think D1 got smarter once she graduated from Cornell. She didn’t have the highest GPA at Cornell (clearly, there were smarter kids than her because they were graded on a curve), but she was very well prepared to compete with graduates from those “higher tier” schools. D1 was very active socially while she was at Cornell. Now at work, she is one of few analysts who gets invited to help with recruiting.</p>
<p>Just a side note, I know a lot of D1’s friends with low 3.0 (or even lower) GPA from CoE and CAS who are working at very reputable consulting and engineering firms. If it means anything, all of her friends (she has many because of her affiliation with Greek) are currently working or in grad schools.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your input. Oldfort, I especially value you sharing your daughter’s experience! She seems to have gotten out of her experience what she put into it…which is all any parent can hope for. MXMMstudent…thank you for your candor regarding FA. Our S has been offered substantial FA at the colleges closer to home, and that is something he is taking into account—just because our family can “afford” to spend the money doesn’t automatically mean that the expense is justified, and so we are all trying to calculate what the benefit ratio is here (obviously, not just the financial benefit, but the entire experience, as well). This is our first foray into the fray, and wow…have things changed since my husband and I went to college!</p>
<p>Good points regarding “is it worth the price”. 1)The experience. My D, although only a freshman, has been more active on Cornell’s campus than any of her friends from high school have been at their colleges. Something to do & get involved in all the time. Classes for the most part have been stimulating, professors accessable, etc. 2) career pay off. We have a long time before we can judge this one, however speaking with numerous parents of Cornell graduates, a consistent theme has been that most jobs their children have taken have been the result of some “Cornell connection”.</p>
<p>Norcalguy…This OP is similar to another and your response is usually the same. However, I would like to remind you that you are not the majority of students who always do extremely well all of the time and than apply and get accepted to one of the best med schools in the country. You are a valuable contributor to the Cornell forum but your views are a bit lopsided given your extreme intelligence. </p>
<p>To the OP…I can only repeat what both of my sons said regarding their Cornell experience…“It is a humbling experience.” Both sons were straight A students in a highly regarded Highschool. They have a great work ethic and are considered to be very bright but they worked for those A’s and no they did not graduate Cornell with a 4.0 or above.</p>
<p>I didn’t make a judgment on Cornell’s rigor. I simply presented the facts, which is supported by objective statistics.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Cornell’s student body is not as strong as the student bodies of other Ivies.</p></li>
<li><p>Cornell is not more grade inflated or deflated (ie easier or harder) than its peer schools.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>These aren’t simply my opinions. Whether your sons or I personally found the school easy or difficult is irrelevant. My intelligence is irrelevant. The data is very clear on this one.</p>
<p>Let’s not understate the high quality of Cornell’s students. For the enrolled class of 2015, 90% of students were in the top 10% of their class and the median SAT was 1410. For Engineering and CAS, statistics were higher than the university as a whole. This year, Cornell was one of only 3 Ivies with an increase in applicants, and had the largest absolute increase in number. I question whether students enrolling in CAS or Engineering this year are any less strong than those studying say in their respective colleges at Penn.</p>
<p>I think Cornell’s students are strong. But, the discussion had been centered at comparing the work intensity at Cornell vs. some of the other top schools (like Brown or Harvard or Yale). I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring up the fact Cornell’s students are ON AVERAGE not as strong as the students at those schools. But, yes, the best students at Cornell are as strong as the best students at Harvard or at Yale.</p>
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<p>I agree. I think the students in Cornell CAS + Engineering are as strong as the students in Penn CAS + Engineering.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, I find norcalguy’s comments extremely hard to believe. He brags about having a final GPA of nearly 4.0 from Cornell and yet he clearly shows a profound lack of basic statistical concepts. Cornell is partially funded by the State of New York and therefore, it is forced to accept nearly 3-4 times more students than other Ivy Leagues. When you have that many students, obviously, the average scores are going to be lower because by definition, averages take into account the extremes and if Cornell only accepted students who had nearly perfect test scores and GPAs, then it wouldn’t be able to fulfill its 3,000+ incoming freshman class quota.</p>
<p>As for norcalguy’s comment about Brown’s students also being stronger than Cornell’s, the truth lies in the numbers. Brown is a petite school and naturally, with such a small student body, only the very best ones end up applying to medical schools knowing that Brown’s grading system will hurt them in front of admissions committees. Some examples of how incredibly easy Brown’s grading system is: (1) there are only A,B,C, and F grades, i.e., no plusses or minuses; (2) students can drop a class until the very last day of the semester and if they do, their external transcripts won’t indicate that they dropped that class; and (3) failing grades are not recorded as seen here:</p>
<p>Brown explicitly states: “Brown’s unique grading system, coupled with the fact that Brown does not calculate grade point averages for its students, makes it difficult to compare a Brown student transcript with one from another school. Brown students are encouraged to gather materials in their online portfolios that provide more nuanced measures of their knowledge and skills.”</p>
<p>Finally, norcalguy’s GPA of slightly under 4.0, though excellent, is still not a top gpa at Cornell because all undergraduates at Cornell are graded on a 4.3 scale so norcalguy obviously struggled, many times across 4 years, getting final grades of A+, which carry a weight of 4.3. In fact, most pre-med Cornell students are in the CALS college and for them to graduate summa cum laude (with highest honors), they need a minimum GPA of 4.0:</p>