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<p>Wow, pizzagirl, that was a pretty telling comment. I guess you must hang around in different circles than I do. I know multiple lawyers, doctors, teachers, a couple of social workers, three investment bankers, an EVP of one of the largest financial institutions in North America, a retired three star general, two professional athletes,a Federal Court judge, and more actors than I can count, who have tattoos. None of them would be considered to be in a low socioeconomic class.</p>
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More often, yes they would. And I said “less likely”, not “always” - one of the features of being a minority is that you tend to be more accustomed to being around and dealing with the majority than the other way around. Even if you are self-selecting into that minority.</p>
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<p>Telling? Telling of what? I completely agree with Pizzagirl. Those were and are the connotations of tattoos to me, also. Obviously, tattoos have become acceptable across a broader range of society than they used to be. But have you ever seen “An Officer and a Gentleman”? Remember how the male lead tried to hide his tattoo because it was indicative of his lower social class? Pizzagirl is not imagining anything.</p>
<p>I don’t associate tattoos with a lower socioeconomic status either. It seems to me that tattoos cut pretty much across all socioeconomic levels evenly.</p>
<p>And no, I would never consider COMMENTING on your tacky tattoo, any more than I would consider telling you that your big hair or excessive makeup makes you look like a bimbo.</p>
<p>I would say something, however it is rude to comment on how distasteful someone is behaving.</p>
<p>The first time a woman with lots of tattoos was featured on What Not to Wear, I actually thought that Stacy and Clinton would style her to hide the tattoos…not. Same with Say Yes to the Dress…many of the brides want to make sure their tattoos show in their wedding dress.</p>
<p>So still underage D is going to get an edgier haircut soon. I was willing to let her be more “out there” with color (within school dress code) but she likes her natural color.</p>
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<p>Some may see tattoos as a class marker. However, individuals with enough money and status can choose to have tattoos & piercings without concern as to how they are perceived by the general public. Sometimes this can be a so-called socioeconomic class marker in and of itself… this obvious disregard of middle class sensibilities.</p>
<p>Early in the 20th century some sort-of-avant-garde English upper class/aristocratic women got tattoos. Why?</p>
<p>If I had the time, I’d link to some designer runway leopard leggings. And various high end “bimbo” looks. :)</p>
<p>I find the whole idea of wanting to hide tattoos in wedding pictures interesting. If you got the tattoos because you thought they were attractive/meaningful, why hide them? Maybe this is indicative of the changing views of tattoos we’ve seen in this thread and others. The archetypal vision of the ethereal, perfect bride in some girls’ minds reflects a sensibility that does not comport with tattoos. Yet in their daily lives, they find tattoos to be a positive choice. For some, there’s a disconnect that they find hard to bridge. Apparently those who want their tattoos to be seen have crossed that bridge. :)</p>
<p>Fwiw, I’ve never had a bride request tattoo cover ups. We always give them the option though.</p>
<p>“I agree, however I would go on to state that unless they are very shallow, after a minute or so, they will go on to use other sources of information to form their opinion of you.”</p>
<p>I completely agree. On a personal level - I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, even if my first visual is “Oh my heavens!” People are people, and they’re all different and all precious.</p>
<p>The TRUTH of the matter is that the workplace is often not as “fluffy”.</p>
<p>I was responding to CosmicFish’s question about where that kind of judgment is “socially acceptable”. Whether we find the judgment acceptable or not, it is often there. The fact that he operates in circles where he doesn’t often encounter that judgment is AWESOME. He’s found his niche.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the whole world is not like that. The world I live in, both community and workplace is certainly not like that. Just a hard, cold fact.</p>
<p>“As a professional, you just described a company that will never get my employment. If the deciding factor in my promotion is whether or not I have gained a few pounds or missed a haircut, then I am finding a different employer. And if you tell me that a particular company has such practices, I will try not to do business with them, because I do not support such behavior. “Professional” certainly does have expectations of the employee, but it should also have expectations of the employer as well.”</p>
<p>I understand. And I also sympathize, in the true meaning of the word. HOWEVER, part of the corporate world has to be, “How will the client view this person - how do they present?” That’s why corporations hire consultants to train management on upper management’s expectations in dress, appearance, speaking, presentation, and all of it. It’s also why you see companies putting gyms on their bottom floor and having weight loss competitions. They want a battalion of sharp dressed, sleek, thin, fit, healthy, well-spoken, clean cut, intelligent people that can and will be received in every corner of the earth and any board room.</p>
<p>For the record, I do not fit the above description. LOL - but I DO understand that is the expectation. Right now I need a hair cut/style/color, a new fall wardrobe, to put down the donuts and to get on the treadmill! :P</p>
<p>I get what you’re saying, believe me. And in some fields it doesn’t matter if you have facial piercings and visible tattoos, especially in some geographical areas that are a little more progressive minded. But it doesn’t work everywhere, so if you get them when you’re young - I guess my fear is…what if you change your mind??? What if you decide you want to be Mr. International Corporate Man? I’m guessing your answer would be “No way, that would never happen” - and I believe you. But I don’t know that’s true for all young people who go through “a stage”.</p>
<p>Companies put in fitness facilities to improve productivity and decrease healthcare costs. My workplace is mostly casual. Basically business casual to very casual. We have three fitness rooms and some outdoor equipment.</p>
<p>“Isn’t that illegal”</p>
<p>I doubt they would ever SAY, “You were passed over for the promotion in favor of someone who is not as fat as you are.”</p>
<p>But the truth is, if they’re looking at two candidates, all things being equal, and one looks more “professional” (their definition) - they’ll choose the one they think will present better to the client.</p>
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<p>No, it isn’t. Overweight people are not a protected class. Recently a hospital announced they would not hire any nurses whose BMI was over a certain number (I don’t remember what it was). They didn’t even bother to blame it on increasing health insurance costs, they said that their clients expected a certain standard of appearance and health, and they wanted their employees to avoid the hypocrisy of teaching health behaviors while living a lie.</p>
<p>“I find the whole idea of wanting to hide tattoos in wedding pictures interesting. If you got the tattoos because you thought they were attractive/meaningful, why hide them? Maybe this is indicative of the changing views of tattoos we’ve seen in this thread and others. The archetypal vision of the ethereal, perfect bride in some girls’ minds reflects a sensibility that does not comport with tattoos. Yet in their daily lives, they find tattoos to be a positive choice. For some, there’s a disconnect that they find hard to bridge. Apparently those who want their tattoos to be seen have crossed that bridge. :)”</p>
<p>I have a daughter who has a simple tattoo on her shoulder. While it’s fine, and she likes it (obviously that’s why she got it!), on the beach, around town, etc. Obviously, it’s covered in MOST situations. She thinks it’s fun, she loves it. She does NOT, however, think it’s elegant. And she wants a more “elegant” look for her wedding. So she’ll choose a gown that covers it, or she’ll have it covered for her wedding.</p>
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<p>Telling of a judgmental mode of thought. If it’s obvious, as you’ve acknowledged that tattoos are more acceptable, and evident in, a broad range of society, why would you continue to attribute the lower socioeconomic status brand to someone who has one? It defies common sense. An Officer and a Gentleman came out in the early 80s. Much has changed in the world, thankfully, in the past thirty years.</p>
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<p>Exactly, emeraldkity! I fear that that <em>whoooosh</em> I’m hearing, though, is the sound of it sailing right over someone’s head!</p>
<p>“Companies put in fitness facilities to improve productivity and decrease healthcare costs. My workplace is mostly casual. Basically business casual to very casual. We have three fitness rooms and some outdoor equipment.”</p>
<p>Yep, it’s a total win. Does all of the above, and also, by default, makes more employees trimmer and fitter.</p>
<p>We have 2 buildings locally right next to each other - each has their own gym. Our outlying offices also have gyms, soccer nets, basketball goals, etc. Weight loss is competitive, there are company athletic teams, biking teams, and teams for charity walks, etc. They have yoga and other fitness classes at lunch.</p>
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<p>Right. Watching the young brides on SYTTD wanting to show off their tattoos is more of a “hmmm” moment for me. One of many for this 54 year old trying to stay up to date with the times.</p>
<p>I recently had dinner with an out of town client. He was talking about their corporate culture. Their company is located in one of the cities where there are lots of wealthy, successful, brilliant people who wear flip flops and hoodies to work, etc. His company is the opposite - he said he came to work after vacation with a very clean cut goatee and was told within hours that it had to go.</p>
<p>Addressing the young folks on this thread: We parents are here on CC because we are interested in the education of our kids. The majority of parents aren’t looking for prestige for themselves - they just want their kids to have* choices *in life. If getting into a good college will help our kids have more choices, then we do what we can to help make it happen. So when a young person does something that will summarily rule them out for some jobs, it can be a disconnect for us.</p>
<p>Of course we can and should evaluate people partly in terms of their appearance. This doesn’t mean judging on eye or hair or skin color. Or size of nose. And, for me at least, bmi. But I do think choice of clothing, haircut, cosmetics, jewelry and, certainly, tattooing and piercing all help formulate my take on a person. It is not the only factor, of course. But it matters.</p>
<p>Why? Because that is the realm of personal choice. That is about how that person has decided to present themselves visually to society. And it most certainly is relevant in how we parse them and get a read on what they are about.</p>
<p>My kids don’t do the piercings or tattoos. Neither do their close friends. I’m quite relieved. I certainly wouldn’t disown them if they engaged in these practices but I would be concerned about their self-image and the influences shaping them.</p>
<p>What bothers me most about the tattooing/piercing is what I’ve already stated – that it constitutes a painful and radical assault on the body. It involves actual physical pain. It is largely permanent. It is objectifying one’s physical self in a very disturbing and sad way. jmho</p>