<p>Or devia-tive?</p>
<p>Deviant does not mean self harming or harming others. Let’s get the semantics right, shall we?</p>
<p>Deviant means different in some extreme sense, not much else? I think extreme tattooing and/or piercing qualifies. Yes, it is becoming more prevalent. And thus those engaging in it will engage in something else more shocking, because that is their real objective.</p>
<p>Then we have to – or at least some will feel compelled – to ask why? Personally, I think because it is increasingly difficult to find an identity in our society and so many hook up with groups that demand this sort of marking to prove your allegiance.</p>
<p>So I don’t find it to be a heart-warming example of youths just looking for self-expression. I find it pretty sad.</p>
<p>And if you knew me personally you would certainly understand that I, in fact, do not fit into any mainstream majority type casting.</p>
<p>My point, ultimately, is that those so emphatic about self-expression are some of our most slavish followers to an order to “cover.”</p>
<p>My mangled word was denotative. Have no idea why it was autocorrected in that way.</p>
<p>I think an esthetic choice can’t be reduced to a desire to shock or identify with some secret subgroup. Some may, and seeing tattoos and piercings on others certainly advertises the decoration, but that are a variet of motivations, some of them esthetic,</p>
<p>A friend in her sixties has rose colored hair that looks apricot and bubblegum pink in others. She wonders why people stare at us in restaurants, which is amusing. I don’t know why she chose this fashion statement, but I presume it makes her happy and feel young.</p>
<p>I used to have highlights, but now I just have my almost black natural hair color.</p>
<p>Our third friend hates roots so she has gone completely gray.</p>
<p>I have no idea what people think when we go out to dinner together. I do know that we are each happiest with our own choice.</p>
<p>
From the definition you posted earlier:</p>
<p>
Deviant, by your own definition, implies not rarity but rather condemnation as being outside “acceptable behavior”. Note that men putting on dresses, frilly hats, and fake pig noses at football game is certainly unusual or rare behavior but is not deviant because no one condemns them for it. Conversely, use of perfumes and alcohol was certainly deviant behavior among the Puritans even though archaeological remains clearly indicate that they were all doing it!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You make these statements like they are facts. They are your opinions and your opinions are flavored with your bias. You have no idea what their objectives are and they are certainly not all the same. Elaborate tattoos are so common in both the NBA and NFL that the days of finding them shocking are long gone.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m beginning to think you don’t actually know anyone who engages in these activities…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If a breast reduction were anywhere near a tattoo in cost, recovery time, risk/level of invasive surgery, and pain I would have gotten one years ago.</p>
<p>I also don’t think that having a tattoo says anything worse about one’s self esteem than not being comfortable going out in public without makeup. That’s your natural face and many many women in this country won’t walk out the door without some level of covering it up to match cultural beauty standards. But I guess that’s just considered grooming, right?</p>
<p>It’s interesting. I’m watching CNN right now and they’re interviewing someone who saved a cab driver from drowning. Big gauges in his ears. Sure the cab driver didn’t much care about that at the time ;). </p>
<p>But I’ve seen a lot of people that they’re interviewing with tattoos/piercings/etc. I’ve never been to Staten Island or NYC. (Heck, I’ve never been to the east coast). Are tattoos and piercings very common there or is it just a high percentage of them are volunteering?</p>
<p>I don’t think noticeably that common. I think tattoos are becoming much more common, especially among college age people (and I’d guess some of the artsy schools in New York have more students with visible tattoos and unusual piercings than others) but I don’t notice visible tattoos on the vast majority of people on the east coast. I live in Boston and have family in and have spent time in NYC. When I visited Portland, OR recently, I noticed a difference – I think there are more people with visible tattoos there.</p>
<p>Both are common among my students near NYC, though piercings were more popular five to ten years ago.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seems like that could lead to something like this:</p>
<p>“Sorry, even though you are as fit, lean, and strong as you were when you were as a linebacker on your college football team, and thus would be a valuable addition to the nursing team when moving a larger immobile patient is necessary, we cannot hire you because your BMI is too high.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It is somewhat common among college-aged students and recent graduates who tend to be part of the artsy set, hard rock musicians/fans, a few hippies/neohippies, really old-school Navy/Marine veterans(more common back in the '80s than now), etc. </p>
<p>The ones I see most often within the last decade are within the first two group. Considering some of the former three are part of my social network due to college/common interests, it isn’t surprising they’re volunteering given their worldview and personalities, especially the young artsy set and the hippies/neo-hippies. </p>
<p>They may not conform to commonly accepted fashion norms…but when the chips are down in their local communities, they tend to be among the first ones to volunteer to pitch in.</p>
<p>“And this is why I consider judging people by the presence of tattoos or piercings to be ridiculous. If you (for example) are such an outlier yourself, why do you get to judge someone else’s differences? What makes your differences superior to another’s, when neither of you are hurting anyone?”</p>
<p>Nt the person to whom this was addressed, but I see a difference between secretly thinking - wow, that is really an unattractive choice, you didn’t do yourself any favors with that one - and judging the person as being of inferior worth, status or value. I might secretly do the former, but I’m not doing the latter. That person with the sleeve tattoos might have a heart of gold and be a fabulous person; I just might think he did himself a disservice in making a permanent and (in my eyes) unattractive fashion choice. That’s all. </p>
<p>Think of your aesthetic reaction to someone walking down the street who looked like Peg Bundy from Married w Children. She might be a lovely person, but she’s sending out signals of a certain kind. To me, big tattoos send out similar signals. Except it’s a lot easier for Peg to take off her leggings. Well, maybe not, she’s poured into them. </p>
<p>Small tattoos (the rose on the ankle) are so commonplace nowadays, but I still personally can’t find them cute or attractive. But, it’s not important that I do so. Free country and all.</p>
<p>I adore people watching. I used to think “why did she make that choice?” As I age, I’ve started wondering more “what does my reaction to her choice say about me?”</p>
<p>Peg Bundy’s pants:</p>
<p>Vogue magazine, November issue with Rihanna on the cover
pg 289 West Gordon trousers, $925 Bergdorf Goodman , NYC</p>
<p>Great, Alh; I don’t care if our dear Peg paid $39 or $925 for that look, I find it unattractive. Peg, of course, needn’t take my aesthetic judgment in mind when making her fashion choices, as it’s a free country. </p>
<p>I have noticed you doing that a lot - pointing out expensive/designer versions of “low rent” choices. Whatever for? It’s pretty well known that rich people can ape the tastes of poorer people (deliberately ripped designer jeans, Salvation Army chic, and lots of hip hop fashion). I was in a shoe store yesterday and noted boots that were pre-distressed - looked as though they’d already weathered multiple storms.</p>
<p>Whatever for?</p>
<p>this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I never really even thought about leopard-print leggings till reading all your posts, on various threads, referencing them. Now I find myself noticing them all the time. When I saw that page in Vogue- I thought: Wow - Pizzagirl will want to see this!! :)</p>
<p>And I do happen to have friends who dress this way - the low end and the high end versions.</p>
<p>okay - too much information, but that’s why and “whatever for?”</p>
<p>If I come across as harshly judging those who do extreme tattoos or piercing, then I am failing to express my real feeling which is sort of a sadness. It makes me sad someone would do something so painful and permanent to their bodies. And I really can’t come up with any real explanation for why they do it except to fit in with a sub-culture or to shock.</p>
<p>My friends who did breast reduction did it for back pain reasons and so they could exercise more easily. Breast augmentation . . . totally different.</p>
<p>Who cares in the end? I do think the diversity of personal styles is enormously provocative and fun.</p>
<p>"I do think the diversity of personal styles is enormously provocative and fun. "</p>
<p>Except when it’s sad and deviant…</p>
<p>You seem really hung up on the pain part. I’d venture that we all do things that are TEMPORARILY painful for what we consider the greater good-I have friends who exercise until they puke, or can’t lift their arms-that’s painful, but they consider a fit body worth it. I have a friend whose D is on a swim team that requires them to be at the pool at 6 am-to her, getting up that early is physically painful. A tattoo CAN be painful-for a short time, and the wearer considers it worth the short-term pain worth it to look the way they want to look. While you can stop exercising or taking a kid to early morning lessons, and get rid of that pain you can’t get back the time you spent in pain. It’s all relative.</p>
<p>Until I came on CC, I didn’t know how many people went around feeling sad for others’ looks-those who get sad over sloppy sweats, tattoos, who knows what else? Learn something new every day.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Because you’ve ignored every other reason given by people who have gotten tattoos for something other than one of those two reasons.</p>
<p>Maybe I have a high threshold for pain but my tattoo really didn’t hurt that bad. It’s NOTHING compared to a cyst and it was actually less painful than my braces (I had an open bite so I had to have the expander- talk about pain!). It depends on where you get your tattoo, obviously, but I doubt I’d call it “so painful”- at least in my case.</p>