<p>What I’ve found really interesting in this discussion is that several of the ardent tattooing/piercing proponents seem to present themselves as a sort of beleaguered minority that mainstream society is harming or unfairly judging. </p>
<p>For example, cosmicfish is conflating his tattoo with his friend’s death and sort of insinuating that if his linkage of his tattoo to his friend’s death doesn’t have us saying, “Well, golly, that makes tattooing a really good idea!” then we are heartless and not duly moved by his loss of his friend.</p>
<p>Sorry – this is just absurdity!</p>
<p>Yes, I do judge such thinking. I think it’s just stupid. And cosmicfish and absweetmarie are totally entitled to think and to some extent post really foul judgements of me. Doesn’t bug me at all.</p>
<p>But I do think inflating tattoos/piercing into some sort of special interest, aggrieved minority status is completely hilarious:</p>
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<p>Right. After I beat up on extreme tattooers I just go my merry way casting aspersions on other entire groups of people. Sheesh.</p>
Several people on this board seem to have relegated people with tattoos or piercings to some inferior status based on that decision. What is fair about that?</p>
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I do not expect you to be moved one iota by the loss of my friend - you didn’t know him (I presume). My point for raising that issue was to note that presupposing a motivation for a particular aesthetic choice, and then judging people’s character based on that assumed motivation, judges people unfairly. Several on here have proclaimed that tattoos are a choice made by people looking to shock, or become part of some counter-culture, and I was offering a counter-example.</p>
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What foul judgements have I posted of you?</p>
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Oh, I do not claim any such status - as a couple of posters on here have demonstrated, the desire to condemn people for looking different is not confined to tattoos or piercings alone, so I do not consider this to be a minority issue. I consider it an issue of people making character and moral judgements on others based on their appearance. Tattoos and piercings are just a subset.</p>
<p>I have not posted any foul judgments of you, sewhappy. I have been perplexed by your reading of certain posts and have expressed consternation at your tone, which I feel is aggressive and unnecessarily incendiary. Your manner of communicating on this thread is not conducive to civil dialogue, in my opinion. I have not judged you as a person.</p>
<p>What I am saying, sewhappy, is that take-no-prisoners argument in which it is the norm to deny–not question, but flat out deny–the patriotism, intelligence, ethics, morals, and basic human worth of someone who disagrees with you has become an accepted mode of argument due to that pollution of the public airwaves, and the corruption has spread across the aisle. Anyone who engages in a less ruthless style or admits the existence of shades of gray is viewed as “weak.”</p>
<p>For the record, I am a liberal, an Atheist, and I strongly dislike tattoos and piercings. :)</p>
<p>Look, Guys. I think extreme piercing and tattooing is not good for a lot of reasons. Sure, I’m “judging” you if you do it. That is life. That doesn’t make me a bad person because I observe a person’s actions and formulate a judgement. And do remember, tattoos and piercings affect your appearance but it’s not like skin color or any other physical trait you’re born with. You act to get the tattoos and piercings. I think for many of us it has not much to do with how you end up looking but the act itself that bothers us.</p>
<p>Now, that said, I would be first in line to defend your right to do whatever you feel compelled to do to your body. That is absolutely your right and I certainly would not like to see doors closed on you in the areas of education, housing, employment, etc.</p>
<p>I am glad you are free to pierce and tattoo to your heart’s content. I’m actually glad you do it. Makes life more interesting.</p>
<p>That said, I’d be mortified if my kids did it and I asked them after coming across this thread if they wanted to do it and they both said it they didn’t think it looked good and it hurt and it was expensive. Then they asked if I was thinking of doing it, and I was somewhat pleased to realize they actually thought I might be~</p>
<p>Being tattooed and pierced (other than the ears) implies that you are comfortable deviating from social norms. One barrier to drug use is deviating from social norms (at least outwardly, as some people keep it a secret.) So it does imply that those that are tattooed and pierced may be more likely to take drugs. </p>
<p>Tattoos seem to be more accepted today than when I was a kid, so it probably means less today that someone has tattoos.</p>
<p>I agree you are free to make whatever judgements you want, but I don’t agree that you can understand others’ motivations better than they can and dismiss their self- understanding. I’m sure your analysis is creepy for some people but certainly not all people you apply it to.</p>
Is this a surprise to anyone? Tattoos and attire have long been used as identifiers for groups, a way to quietly identify each other. This is an actual problem with some tattoos, where people get tattoos not knowing that the particular designs are used by local, regional, or national groups as means of association.</p>
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Even if that is true, what good does that do? I have no problems deviating from social norms (as I think said norms do as much damage as they do good), but I am personally opposed to drug abuse, plus it would be career suicide for me.</p>
<p>I would also note that “societal norms” vary based on their society. In many areas, even in the US, tattooing and piercing ARE the norm!</p>
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There is a distinction between making a “best guess” and condemning someone for it, as the latter implies (and should require) certainty. This is the reason why conviction in court requires certainty - there is no justice or morality in condemning someone because the simplest explanation to you is that they are a bad person. The problem may be with your own perception, or may simply be wrong. Thinking ill of someone simply because they are different and you conflate that difference with moral failings just hurts everyone.</p>
<p>"Thinking ill of someone simply because they are different and you conflate that difference with moral failings just hurts everyone. "</p>
<p>No, no, no it doesn’t. Your own thoughts are just that, your own. It doesn’t hurt the person that doesn’t hear your thought. People are perfectly capable of judging others and having thoughts in their head that are negative without letting their outward behavior be affected. </p>
<p>Nobody is hurt if I pass a tattood person on the street and think they have bad judgment.</p>
<p>After reading this thread, I bet Zimmerman wishes Trayvon had been wearing only an undershirt up top and had full body violent tattoos and multiple piercings.</p>
<p>I get my hair highlighted, I get my nails, I get my eyebrows waxed. I’ve gotten my eyelashes dyed and I’ve thought about doing those eyelash extensions. All those “trivially and superficially” involve an outlay of time and money to alter my outward physical appearance. What’s the difference? I think that’s a weak argument, honestly.</p>
<p>I’m a geezer–just turned 60. Tattoos weren’t the thing to do back in the day. Personally, I think they’re kind of tacky. That being said, every time I find myself making a judgment about someone who’s heavily tattooed, I find that my judgment was incorrect. Example: went to REI for a new waterproof shell to use for walking outside. Young man who came over to wait on me was heavily tattooed and pierced. Thought that flashed through my mind: what would he know about outdoor apparel. He probably never does stuff like hiking. The only reason I thought this was because of his tattoos and piercings.</p>
<p>Turns out, I was wrong. This young guy was incredibly knowledge, helpful, and polite. He even offered tips on how best to wash a Goretex shell. We also talked about hiking/backpacking and I told him about a trip I took to Yosemite earlier this year. We had a great exchange. My point–can’t judge a book by its cover.</p>
<p>I think what Bromfield says sums up how I feel, though I’m much younger :-). I think they’re kind of tacky and not very attractive. But, it’s pretty hard for me to make any conclusion that people with tattoos are “flawed” in any way the way that sewhappy is, other than they’ve made an aesthetic statement that I personally wouldn’t make. I think it’s a “worse” aesthetic statement to make because of the permanence of it (versus hairstyle, hair color, clothing that can be easily changed), but eh, so be it. Not my life.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t hire a heavily tattooed person to be a front-line with clients, however. I do have employees with heavy tattoos and gauges in back-line positions.</p>