<p>By “Detained” do you actually mean “arrested”? I travel a lot and periodically get “detained” (not arrested) by TSA to get my hands or carryons dusted and checked for traces of explosives (BTW, TSA does not give a rat’s behind about drugs, it is not covered by their SOPs). I have zero tattoos and usually wear something very generic, so here is where the logic fails. BTW, I am not trying to defend the TSA’a actions, just setting the record straight - you can look at the history of my posts and see that I am not a fan of TSA. :)</p>
<p>My S1 has five tattoes. None are visible when he is fully clothed unless you count the koi fish on his foot that is visible when wearing flipflops.</p>
<p>He is nothing like the stereotypes that many people hold regarding tattoes.
He is uber intelligent,well read,well spoken, has a very handsome clean cut appearance,runs and works out at the gym daily (big into weight lifting). He graduated at the top of his class,got a full ride to college, graduated w/ honors and is now a platoon commander in one of the most elite units in the U.S. Navy. He’s 25 years old,owns his own home that he furnished beautifully. It’s one block from the beach! Nobody should be worried if their D fell in love with my S1 :)</p>
<p>re price: According to S1 the going price was $100/hour where he got his tattoes done.</p>
<p>This has to be one of the most discussed topics in the Parents Cafe. One seems to come up every six months or so. And the comments always follow the same trend. The individuals who are happy to pass judgment on others based solely on their appearance state how awful tattoos are, and those who have successful, non-drug using children with tattoos (or have tattoos themselves, where are you MOWC? :)) fail to convince the former. And nothing changes. </p>
<p>For the record, I’m in the latter group. Three of my Ds have small tattoos and all are intelligent and successful, and none use drugs - one is a lawyer, one a teacher and one in med school. They are not unique, many of their colleagues also have tattoos. As someone who has worked with youth in my profession for decades, often troubled youth who have substance abuse issues, I can tell you that appearance has little to do with it.</p>
<p>I’m not surprised. When our kids are applying for jobs, the ideal is for there to be nothing for the prospective employer to have to “look past.” It just makes the job search that much rougher.</p>
<p>Packmom, your S1 is a little old for my D…otherwise I’d be trying to fix them up!</p>
<p>I really appreciate your responses. The most troublesome thing about D, of course, is the “dating a drug user would not be bad” thing. Both my parents’ dads were alcoholics and my sister was married to a guy who had a decent job but thought he should be able to spend 100% of his paycheck on cocaine. I know that there are many steps between casual use and addiction, but no one wants their almost 17 year old to learn hard lessons.</p>
<p>The rule at our house is no multiple piercings or tattoos while you are on our health insurance :D. I don’t care how old you are, if you do that, you get a job and get your own health insurance. So far no tattoos or multiple piercings here. We also joke about how “nice” that tattoo will look in the nursing home. Sorry, not a fan of them at all.</p>
<p>It’s a fair point to raise that extreme orthodontia, not to mention plastic surgery to “fix” noses, or even extreme dieting to the point of emaciation are also indicators something awry in the pursuers psychology. </p>
<p>That said, the multiple facial piercings and tattoos among youth are especially bad because of the permanence of the procedures and the actual danger involved.</p>
<p>Here’s what I think drives these kids to do it – a sense that they don’t fit into mainstream society too well at a time in their lives when they are seeking a sense of identity. A need to mark themselves overtly as outliers. A need to shock. A need to say “look at me . . . I’m not trying to be pretty or handsome or normal looking . . . I’m an outlier, a individualist free of the constraints of your repressive society.”</p>
<p>Sure, we all go through these phases. I’ve felt a need to provoke and “not go along” in practically every decade of my adult life. But to pierce my flesh, hang metal objects from my brow and stud my tongue and have some “artist” imprint my skin with pictures? Un no. That would be just stupid and reckless. jmo</p>
<p>missypie- I think your priorities are correct. Can you initiate a conversation with your Dd some time when you are both relaxed and have time together? It’s possible that she isn’t aware of your family history of addiction. A conversation would also clue you in to any use she might be contemplating. The more you talk about this, the better. I would even enlist your husband, if he is able to have a reasonable conversation with her that includes listening.
With the elections taking place, and the marijuana bills in some states, you might use this as an opening. Also, it’s helpful if our kids know that we know there is a difference between a drug like weed and one like cocaine in terms of harm and addiction potential, and if she doesn’t recognize the difference ( “dating a drug user would not be bad” thing,) some education is in order. Good luck. I understand your worry.</p>
<p>I certainly think this is what tattoos USED TO represent.</p>
<p>I think the “rebel” meaning of them has eroded away to the point that it is now going, going, gone.</p>
<p>Again, I worked in an office where middle-aged, middle class women would talk about getting their next tattoo of a rosebud or a fairy or their child’s birthday. One dad in the office had just had his first baby and was getting a HUGE portrait of the infant on his lower leg. (I’ve got to be honest, I thought that was one of the more ill-advised tattoos I’ve seen. I mean, is your kid going to appreciate that when he’s 15?) And this was in a fairly conservative city. That is the point where you know the rebellious kids would no longer find tattoos rebellious.</p>
<p>I certainly understand parents not wanting their teenagers to get tattoos, as some teenagers don’t have enough of a sense of perspective yet. (Just like some high schoolers think a high school romance is True Love that will last forever.)</p>
With the older generations, tattoos are a much bigger problem. 25, 50, 75 years ago they were much less socially acceptable, which meant that the average person was likely to take the social hit only under stress or the influence of substances. Add to that the fact that the state of the art of tattooing was pretty low in most places, and you get a large number of tattoos received while drunk at an establishment operating with low artistic and health standards. These are not issues as much anymore - there are excellent artists to be found without great difficulty, improved health standards have drastically reduced the danger, and society as a whole no longer lumps the tattooed into the “idiot” or “thug” categories.</p>
<p>As to the “ugly after decades” bit, it has to be realized that you are painting a living canvas - the ink will spread a bit over time, blurring some lines, but more importantly the skin will change shape and tone as well. To some extent this can be handled with maintenance - the tattoo can be touched up or even covered over with a new tattoo, just as even the best paint job on a house or wall will eventually need work. As for the rest of the degradation, well that is mostly the skin - at some point that skin is just not going to be pretty, and a tattoo does not change that. FWIW I have seen older guys with tattoos and they HAVE looked great, because they were good tattoos to start with and because every couple of decades they had someone do a little touch up.</p>
It is “stupid and reckless” only if you have cause to regret it. I have tattoos, so does my wife. They were carefully chosen, personally meaningful, and executed by artists chosen for their artistic skill and professional manner. I have known many tattooed individuals and only a few regretted what they did - even when the tattoo was “bad” they still relished it as an indication and reminder of who they were back then. The most common regrets I have seen were from young people who got tattoos without knowing how to identify a good artist first.</p>
<p>As an example, I have a tattoo representing the loss of my best friend of two decades, the best man at my wedding. I waited several months after hsi death before getting it, it was well executed, and unless he comes back from the dead will be relevant the rest of my life.</p>
I heartily agree that no one should get tattoos that cannot be covered easily by professional attire unless they have reasons to be certain that they either do not ever want such employment or will have some other substantial positives that will compensate.</p>
<p>
This is not particulary related to the body modification. The legal, professional, and health risks and consequences of drug abuse far outstrip the dangers of getting a tattoo or piercing.</p>
<p>I wonder how many anti-piercing women here have pierced ears, and how many men have wives who do? Or if they don’t, think that there’s something ill-judged about their family and friends who do?</p>
<p>I do, and I admitted that it’s a bit of a double standard.</p>
<p>I think most people who have objections would say they have “levels” of tolerance, right or wrong - double standard or no. Mine looks kind of like this for MY GROWN KIDS.</p>
<ol>
<li> “Normal piercing” - one hole in each lobe for females - completely acceptable</li>
<li> A second hole in each lobe for females - completely acceptable</li>
<li> Multiple holes in ears for females - acceptable</li>
<li> Small stud in nose - I don’t like it, but I can deal with it if you’re off my payroll.</li>
<li> Any other facial piercing or tongue piercing - Definitely NOT allowed if you’re still on my payroll. I hate it, it’s going to really really bother me. My feeling is that you are “messing up your beautiful face” - you don’t look like my kid anymore - you look strange…weird…and it makes me worry and it makes me sad. Right or wrong, that’s how I feel.</li>
</ol>
<p>Tattoos:</p>
<ol>
<li> No tattoos - required if you are under 18 and/or on my payroll.</li>
<li> Small tattoo - hidden from bridal gown area and not visible in normal daily wear, no skulls, vulgarities or pagan or similar - I don’t like it, but I can live with it.</li>
<li> Several (3) tattoos of the same nature - I REALLY don’t like it, but I can live with it.</li>
<li> Any more tattoos than that or tattoos with skulls, vulgarities or pagan meanings - I hate it, it’s going to really really bother me. My feeling is that you are “messing up your beautiful body” - you don’t look like my kid anymore - you look strange…weird…and it makes me worry and it makes me sad. Right or wrong, that’s how I feel.</li>
<li> Crazy tattooing on neck, face, etc. - Same as #4 only magnified.</li>
</ol>
<p>“Of course, I know that not all tatooed and heavily pierced people are drug users and losers”
-Some of them have / had shows on TV, they might be into millions, not sure if they are loosers, definitely not my definition of a looser, but everybody is entitled to their own.</p>
<p>To back up MiamiDAP, tattoos (definitely) and piercings (somewhat) are much more accepted now due in part to their more open appearance in the artistic and athletic communities.</p>
<p>To answer OPs question about the correlation between tattoos and drug losers, I started thinking about the people in my life who I know to have had substance issues that had a very, very material negative impact on their lives. I cant recall tattoos on any of them.</p>
<p>Id be interested in hearing from other posters. Within your actual knowledge of those you are close to, are there substance losers (drug and alcohol abusers) without tattoos? Are more of your known substance losers without tattoos? In fact, are most of your known substance losers without tattoos?</p>
<p>Missypie- Both my D’s went through phases where they thought Travis Barker was good looking. I just didn’t see it. They both seem to have outgrown that phase.
I don’t like tattoos or out of the ordinary piercings but I have reached a point of reality that it is not my body. I also don’t think piercings or tattoos are an issue that I want to base financial support on. My kids know I don’t like them.
Oldest has several large tats on her back. Two of them are actually nice for a tattoo and one of them is amazing if you consider the artwork. The third was not done by someone as skilled as the first two and it shows. The quality of the tattoo can vary widely. Unfortunately many young people don’t have a lot of cash or act impulsively and don’t investigate the quality of work of the person doing their tattoo.None of them show when she is in business attire. She has dated several young men who have tattoos. They have all been nice guys. What totally turns me off is when they pull out a cigarette. I also don’t like the large gaged ears. Those are things that lead me to believe the guy isn’t thinking about the future.
My younger D is considering getting one but her brother who is older has convinced her to wait. My S has no interest. He did go through the pierced eyebrow phase. Luckily it got infected and he removed it.
Thinking about the D’s comment on dating a drug user. I think for many young people (especially in states such as Ca, Wash, Oregon and Colorado) occasional pot smoking is consider socially acceptable. They don’t see why it should not be legal. My youngest has said if she eliminated every guy who has smoked or smokes she would have no one to date. She is clear that she has no interest in dating someone who is smokes pot on a regular basis but would not be against dating an occasional user. She feels regular smokers usually lack motivation. Older D won’t date anyone who uses but that is just her personal feeling. I would bet Missypie’s D is taking about not being against dating someone who occasionally smokes pot not that she would date someone who smokes meth or uses cocaine.
At this point I go to the reminder of someone on this board. Love the kid on the couch. I try hard to give my kids my support, let them know how I feel but in the end how they live their lives is up to them. Our kids are smart and they will figure out what works for them. They will make some mistakes along the way but that is how many of them learn.</p>
<p>I think heavily inked celebrities are part of the issue. A teen sees Adam Levine or Angelina Jolie and knows that they have made it big and have visible tattoos. The issue is more making it “little”…whether a non-celebrity normal young person can get a normal, non-glamorous job with the same visible tattoos.</p>
<p>Back to my original post, my concern is the type of guys to which she is attracted…It would be nice if she dated guys who looked like “bad boys” but weren’t, in fact, bad boys.</p>
<p>A friend of mine went abroad his junior year of high school and got tatted and pierced. He has more piercings and tats now (sophomore in college) and also does drugs. He’s also doing pretty fine for himself, he’s got a great social life, a hot girlfriend, and even managed to work at his dad’s law firm this summer. He’s certainly doing a lot better than piercing-less, tattoo-less, drug (except for marijuana)-less me lol.</p>
<p>I also know a girl who’s got a few tattoos, although none are visible under typical clothing. Smart as a whip, taking 7 classes in two rather tough majors without stressing too much, already has a good job lined up after graduation. She also almost always drinks in moderation and doesn’t really like drugs, not even weed.</p>
<p>Based on my small sample size it would seem that tattoos actually increase one’s chances for success!</p>
<p>Here is a paper (which I thought might be relevant to our little discussion) by a group of Texas Tech researchers published in The Social Science Journal in 2010:</p>