<p>“We are too proud of our $30-$50 an hour jobs in many industries. How do you compete that with countries paying $10 a day?”</p>
<p>Here’s the real rub about your comment. We are subsidizing the business that uses that $10 a day (generous) labor. Here’s what gets me about how some of the “educated” think. </p>
<p>What do you do with the misplaced worker here? You’ve taken a “tax payer” and created a “tax taker” who now takes more out of the system then they put in. I WANT my neighbors employed. If they’re workin’ they’re paying into this great system. If they’re not, they are taking from it… </p>
<p>We have to some degree control the “free market” because simply we have to feed, house and provide for those who can’t… or will you enjoy working your job and supporting other families besides your own?</p>
<p>I know, I know it’s the internet and many of you can sit there and shout let em starve, too bad they aren’t college educated and so what… It doesn’t make the problem go away… That’s why I love “theory” and those who sit on tv and “talk” about how this is best for america… you can’t eat theory and it won’t keep you warm. My simple “theory” is as follows, make sure our families have employment and yes, a living wage opportunity, then we worry about elsewhere… protectionist maybe… I see my neighbors more than I see the chinese.</p>
<p>“What do you do with the misplaced worker here? You’ve taken a “tax payer” and created a “tax taker” who now takes more out of the system then they put in. I WANT my neighbors employed. If they’re workin’ they’re paying into this great system. If they’re not, they are taking from it…”</p>
<p>“I know, I know it’s the internet and many of you can sit there and shout let em starve, too bad they aren’t college educated and so what… It doesn’t make the problem go away.”</p>
<p>“My simple “theory” is as follows, make sure our families have employment and yes, a living wage opportunity, then we worry about elsewhere… protectionist maybe… I see my neighbors more than I see the chinese”</p>
<p>I agree with you, Opie ofMaybery2.</p>
<p>Those that make the rules, the largest corporations in the US and the world…DON’T!</p>
<p>Unless you plan on being out of a house in around 5 years, or you know that you are going to be changing to a higher income because of a loan ending or a major job change, an ARM is not a very good idea. </p>
<p>As far as making $30-$50 a hour; I have been out of college for many years. I already make that pay scale. My point however was that many of our jobs that relate to our exports; automotive, technology, energy, aircraft, military equipment, etc… The vast majority of these jobs are very high paying jobs when compared to much of the world. Selling cars or networking equipment to countries in Africa and other places when they can’t afford to buy it from us. It’s easier for them to buy a car from Korea or the new car being designed in India than a car from the USA. This is actually good because it helps the economy of those countries while allowing the 3rd world countries to evolve and expand.</p>
<p>For our economy to prosper, we have to help other country’s economies grow so they can afford our products, or we can to have lower prices for them to afford it. This isn’t the 1950’s or 1960’s any longer. The reason we have such a disparity in our trade and economy is because we aren’t as competitive as we use to be. Telecom is a prime example. DSL and other broadband is a lot more expensive in the USA than many countries. Part of it is because of our physical size. Part is because of the $20-$25 a hour a telecom tech is making. Part is because many countries control and/or subsidize their telecom network. We can’t really export or get into those markets. We import more and more China and other country made parts, but that doesn’t take care of our standard of living difference.</p>
<p>I’m not saying we need to lower our standard of living. That’s not practical. I also don’t believe in redistribution of wealth. But we do need to get other countries; especially those that can become our future customers; to excel in their economies and get a certain level of inflation.</p>
<p>"For our economy to prosper, we have to help other country’s economies grow so they can afford our products, or we can to have lower prices for them to afford it. This isn’t the 1950’s or 1960’s any longer. The reason we have such a disparity in our trade and economy is because we aren’t as competitive as we use to be. Telecom is a prime example. DSL and other broadband is a lot more expensive in the USA than many countries. Part of it is because of our physical size. Part is because of the $20-$25 a hour a telecom tech is making. Part is because many countries control and/or subsidize their telecom network. We can’t really export or get into those markets. We import more and more China and other country made parts, but that doesn’t take care of our standard of living difference.</p>
<p>I’m not saying we need to lower our standard of living. That’s not practical. I also don’t believe in redistribution of wealth. But we do need to get other countries; especially those that can become our future customers; to excel in their economies and get a certain level of inflation."</p>
<p>We are not as competitive as the rest of the world because we pay our employees more, making our costs higher.</p>
<p>Innovation still starts in the US. </p>
<p>“I’m not saying we need to lower our standard of living.”</p>
<p>That’s what is happening, and if the US doesn’t change the way it does business, it will continue to happen.</p>
<p>Corporations profits, in relationship to costs, was at a 40 year high last year. Corporations are benefiiting by globalization. Workers in the USA…not.</p>
<p>Opie, you live in Washington. Do you know how many Boeing planes China is buying? What is Boeing employment now compared to the bust period back in the 90’s? What do those jobs pay? Would Boeing be sellling as many planes to China if we were not importing clothes from China? We have to do what we are good at. You want to be like eastern Europe was only having Trabants to buy and drive due to protections? Toyota/Honda is the best thing that has happened to Detroit. They can’t get by selling crap anymore. You want to buy a frikking POC Vega again? Most of my Toyota was made right here in the USA. I’ll never buy “American” again until they are as good or better.</p>
<p>Barron’s I am only a few minutes from boeing biggest production plant… and my neighborhood is now about 30% unoccupied homes (middle class 300-400k)… commerical properites beg for tennets, layoffs are occurring with many smaller employers. new jobs and hiring are down… and you are absolutely correct boeing’s “going” great guns… now tell me why that money isn’t reaching this community where the planes are actually made? Where’s the ripple effect? Boeing jobs pay well because the boeing worker puts in 60-70hrs a week. OT </p>
<p>Detriot’s failing because the heads have decided to sell cars by turning them into mini rvs… When was the last time you saw a commerical on what really makes a car… a car? </p>
<p>Things are the way they are here not because of the worker, but because of the decision makers. The detroit assembly line guys didn’t make the call. It isn’t labor… it’s educated management. So is it higher education and what they turn out leadership wise that is failing us, or labor? Who green lighted the project, the line worker? </p>
<p>and no, I don’t want to be like eastern europe… is that our only choice? Would you prefer I tax you to subisdize housing and food for the misplaced? How about giving half your income for those who aren’t working? Gee which is a better senario yours or mine? I would say we’re both screwed. </p>
<p>But in my world I can choose to buy a “protected” pair of levis or not. In yours, when uncle bucks adds to your tax burden to “help” others less fortunate… can you choose to participate or not?</p>
<p>Tax payers vs. tax takers… which one effects you more? :)</p>
<p>I wonder how long China will be content in making clothes and buying airplanes. They already are making components of Boeing airplanes. It probably won’t be long before they make the whole plane for half the price.</p>
<p>The US is well along the path of giving up its hi-tech technology. I challenge you to pick up anything electronic that is made in the US. The problem is that not only is it manufactured in Asia, but most of the design is also being done there.</p>
<p>"Detriot’s failing because the heads have decided to sell cars by turning them into mini rvs… When was the last time you saw a commerical on what really makes a car… a car? </p>
<p>Things are the way they are here not because of the worker, but because of the decision makers. The detroit assembly line guys didn’t make the call. "</p>
<p>No, a major part of the problem is the cost of production, not the car design/size. Because of the bloated pension and health costs of a Detroit union job, the cost of a new car built by union labor is much higher than a comparable Japanese car.</p>
<p>I’m shocked fundingfather that you wrote this (post #28). </p>
<p>I agree with you. I agree with Opie too.</p>
<p>I just spent Sunday with a friend who happens to be a business owner and we talked about globalization. He deals with consumers and he is worried. Consumers are falling behind. They can’t afford life.</p>
<p>He says we are in a recession. He talks to companies all over America.</p>
<p>His views were remarkably close to Opie’s. </p>
<p>He just came back from Austrailia where minimum wage is something like $17 an hour. Workers get a living wage.</p>
<p>We are going to pay one way or the other. So why not choose work over unemployment insurance and welfare? </p>
<p>Instead of a bailout package where people get $300 to $600 and spend it on Chinese goods, why not start a public works program and build up our infrastructure. Create jobs here.</p>
<p>Barrons, I asked you about Bill Gross. Bill Gross says supply side economics was necessary when it started, but now we need demand side economics. We need to rebuild America and create good paying jobs here. We don’t need to spend more money on Chinese goods sold in Walmart.</p>
<p>Just because I see a problem, doesn’t mean that I agree with a government-mandated solution. One thing I’m quite sure is that if the US had a $17 minimum wage we would either see unemployment of epic proportion or illegal alliens stampeding across any fence that we put up on the border … probably both.</p>
<p>“Ive never been so tickled that our mortgage is a ARM”</p>
<p>I’ve been waiting to refinance because I was betting on another rate cut…excellent. :)</p>
<p>I’m also putting money into upgrading my home, because I am surely not putting it on the market any time soon, and it better be competitive when I do.</p>
<p>Trust me - being in an industry that is hit hard by this, I see the problem and I think it will have long term ramifications on both our industries as well as educational institutions. It will ultimately shake our ability to compete as a nation. I would love to see a non-partisan solution to this, but I don’t really know what it is. I do know that if it involves greater regulation/restriction on the corporations it will just give that much more incentive to ship even more jobs to China/India.</p>
<p>“I am only a few minutes from boeing biggest production plant… and my neighborhood is now about 30% unoccupied homes (middle class 300-400k)… commerical properites beg for tennets,”</p>
<p>I investigated the real estate issues in Everett. Unsold homes and unoccupied commercial property isn’t the fault of the economy but overbuilding.</p>
<p>Fundingfather, I don’t really have the answer either and I have been thinking about this for years. I guess you have been thinking about his for years too.</p>
<p>I think if we are going to err, let’s err on the side of American jobs and not on the side of cheap imports from China. That’s my thinking right now.</p>
<p>I understand others think differently.</p>
<p>I don’t like what is happening and what you are telling me just confirms what I see and hear.</p>
<p>I can’t help but notice- that those who think that workers with 20, 30 years experience in their field are overpaid at $30 an hour, are the same ones who apparently have enough disposable income to have 2nd homes, trips to Europe & to have $50K EFCs.</p>
<p>My husband is a composite specialist @ Boeing. He has been there for over 20 years, building to military specs and making the engineering drawing work ( which often requires trying to get them to see where they have made mistakes, not an easy task, as well as having to design and build the tool in order to make the part. He likes his job, but since union workers are paid according to seniority & job classification- they can’t give him a raise- so what they do instead is give him “awards”- which translate as points to buy overpriced crap that he doesn’t want- the irony is, we have to pay taxes on it, just as if it was received as pay)</p>
<p>He makes less per hour than a teacher ( with fewer benefits) & is too physically and mentally exhausted to do anything when he comes home from work than eat dinner and go to bed. Every day.
( I don’t mean to pick on teachers- I bring it up because they are generally perceived as being low paid)
I really don’t think he is physically going to last long enough to retire, let alone to enjoy his retirement & you are whingeing about him getting paid $10 an hour more than he earned thirty years ago?</p>
<p>My area well east of Seattle is showing no such empty home activity. Homes are selling well–generally in less than a month if priced well which means just at or above last year.<br>
I am working on a deal that has some property in Everett and drove around the downtown area. It certainly has improved markedly from 10 years ago. I saw little of the vacancy so that must be in the fringe areas or some of the excess built 20 years ago near the Everett mall which itself is something of a dinosaur. </p>
<p>If they have homes that are decent in that range they should be selling as soon as the mortgage situation clears itself out. Better public transit to that area would help as the commute is horrible.</p>
<p>“a major part of the problem is the cost of production, not the car design/size. Because of the bloated pension and health costs of a Detroit union job, the cost of a new car built by union labor is much higher than a comparable Japanese car.”</p>
<p>you write this like it is a one sided problem… those dam workers… we promised them a pension and healthcare and they accepted! Dam them!</p>
<p>Again, these were agreements made by well educated executives to buy time. Dollars tomorrow rather than today… how is that the workers fault? they agreed to work for less than the market demanded for promises… why is it their fault the management couldn’t keep their end of the deal? Aren’t you blaming the wrong person? Didn’t two parties come to an agreement? </p>
<p>And yes, the japanese automakers passed us by because they built economy cars while we kept pounding out luxury cars. Fine corinithian leather vs. an efficent engine. Big glup cup holders vs. fuel economy… </p>
<p>Last year I went to buy a truck and bagged it after visiting several dealerships… mainly because here are the features they wanted to sell me on power door locks, custom floor mats, a 6 cd changer, oversized cup holders… tell me which of those features do I really need to drive a truck? </p>
<p>Build a car, put less fru fru crap in it, turn it out faster, reduce production costs. Leave the aftermarket stuff for the aftermarket.</p>