We got a postcard from Salve Regina -and I put it on the list because can we say LOCATION??? But the full tuition scholarships appeared to be people with serious need? That being said it IS on the list! I left it off by accident! I have no idea about Roger Williams but I’ll look at it ASAP.
Edited to add —> Roger Williams has a full tuition scholarship and it includes students who “live in a geographically underrepresented community” – does this mean Kansas?? Is she eligible to apply- I will have to call. And they have an ASL minor! What a great find -thanks!
Thank you! Do you like your school? What are the students like? Is there a lot to do besides partying?
Also – I appreciate that you too have bounced around the biology-health related majors! It’s just so hard to know much about the different fields as a high schooler.
Appreciate all the work!!! Yeah -I’ve read the NPC stories too. And also the larger merit awards that change the scenario completely. Wish I had some better insight on where she is likely to be successful. If we afford a college counselor who might REALLY know -we probably wouldn’t be as worried about how much college costs – haha!!! I appreciate the kindness of folks here on CC!
I guess Mulhenberg seemed like a great fit from the stories of the students who attend. And it wasn’t too rural or too urban – and it had at least more major options than some of the LAC. Plus - it’s a guess as to whether she’d get admitted but her stats were slightly stronger than the middle 50% from what I could gather. And academically it seemed like she would be challenged but not overwhelmed. So “better” was impression of fit and success?
This is why I suggested that the student focus on experiences, shadowing, informational interviews, internships etc ….rather than a specific major…at least initially.
I think you are making this complicated where it doesn’t need to be. Most of the possible careers you have mentioned require grad school. And your D truly sounds undecided (which of course is fantastic- nobody should have to choose their grownup career at age 17!)
So- find a college in a location she likes with the vibe she wants which you can afford and trust the gods of academia that she’ll find her path. Psych major? She can do that anywhere and everywhere. Math major? Fantastic preparation for a wide range of health related fields. Bio? Of course. But maybe she’ll fall in love with college chemistry. Or takes a Poli Sci class and does a research paper on public funding for maternal nutrition and decide she wants to go into policy or advocacy. And it doesn’t need to be the world’s top bio or psych or poli sci or chem program for her to get into a grad program that will position her for the career that she eventually wants. There are dozens of health related fields that may or may not be of interest to her once she’s progressed further in her education.
I think hoping to get enormous depth in every possible department while sticking with mid-sized and keeping an eye on the budget is a tough needle to thread.
I went ahead and did a ratio of doctorates earned by alumni between 2010-2013 in any field by the approximate number of current undergrads for the schools on your current list as well as some of the recent ones that have been suggested. I tried to bold the schools that you’ve indicated are on your current list but may have missed one.
There are a number of reasons why a school may have a higher or lower ratio. Some fields, like business, engineering, the arts, and many health fields, have very few graduates who go on for doctorates. So colleges that have a bigger proportion of students with those majors are likelier to have a lower ratio. With that major caveat said, however, the ratio may still be an indication of something about a student body and may make it easier to make some guesses about unknown schools when compared to known schools.
As a frame of reference, the average ratio among the 50 flagships is 0.0928 and the median is 0.0849 (for doctorates earned in any field between 2000-2018 of students with any major).
School
Approximate # of Undergrads
# of Doctorates earned by alumni between 2010-2023
State
Ratio of Doctorates earned 2010-2023 to approximate # of undergrads
Macalester
2100
1113
MN
0.530
Smith
2500
849
MA
0.340
Mount Holyoke
2200
716
MA
0.325
Scripps
1100
317
CA
0.288
Brandeis
3700
860
MA
0.232
Juniata
1200
278
PA
0.232
Bradley
3900
860
IL
0.221
SUNY Geneseo
3900
735
NY
0.188
Washington & Lee
1900
306
VA
0.161
Connecticut College
2000
317
CT
0.159
Union
2100
325
NY
0.155
Skidmore
2800
422
NY
0.151
Dickinson
2200
315
PA
0.143
Muhlenberg
1800
229
PA
0.127
Ithaca
4400
530
NY
0.120
Marquette
7700
599
WI
0.078
U. of Scranton
3700
280
PA
0.076
Nazareth
1900
133
NY
0.070
Miami U.
16000
1113
OH
0.070
U. of Kansas
21000
1435
KS
0.068
Elizabethtown
1900
124
PA
0.065
Central Michigan
10000
634
MI
0.063
Duquesne
5200
316
PA
0.061
Syracuse
16000
908
NY
0.057
Mercyhurst
2300
128
PA
0.056
Simmons
1800
96
MA
0.053
Moravian
2000
106
PA
0.053
Loyola Chicago
12000
627
IL
0.052
SUNY Brockport
5400
265
NY
0.049
U. of Wisconsin - Eau Claire
9300
451
WI
0.048
Northern Illinois
11000
491
IL
0.045
SUNY Plattsburgh
3900
164
NY
0.042
U. of Rhode Island
14000
558
RI
0.040
Springfield
1900
74
MA
0.039
DePaul
14000
521
IL
0.037
U. of Minnesota-Duluth
8500
311
MN
0.037
York
3300
115
PA
0.035
Grand Valley State
19000
642
MI
0.034
Slippery Rock
6800
219
PA
0.032
Salisbury
6300
196
MD
0.031
Carroll
2600
79
WI
0.030
Roger Williams
4100
113
RI
0.028
Salve Regina
2100
53
RI
0.025
West Chester
14000
272
PA
0.019
ETA: As I said, the ratios might be an indication of something but it doesn’t mean that a school with a lower ratio is not a good school. Salisbury, for instance, is a top producer of students who become Fulbright scholars (list of Salisbury Fulbright Scholars and a press release, though this info has been available via other sources that didn’t pull up on a quick internet search). So I did the ratios to try and give you a comparison point, but by no means does it tell the whole story, so I would definitely dig deeper into all of the various schools and their options to see what would be a good fit for your D.
I love attending Grand Valley! If it says anything, I chose to attend here over University of Michigan and I have no regrets.
As for students, I would honestly say that there is a wide variety of students; I wouldn’t say there is a “type” of student. There are a wide variety of clubs. Sports are pretty big here as well, particularly football. There is also the Laker Line, which gives good access to downtown Grand Rapids, and the bus system in Grand Rapids is free for students.
For parties, there is definitely some partying. However, I have never attended the party and have never felt the need to. Between academics and being involved in various organizations, I stay pretty busy. I would also say that if she is looking to avoid the party scene, there are a couple of Living Learning communities that I would recommend if you are interested.
Wow! Thank you! There are so many different reasons for the numbers isn’t there! It doesn’t even really reflect prestige does it? Interesting! I think one could get a good education at any of them really.
Yup. And kids make important connections with faculty at all sorts of institutions. It doesn’t need to be a 12 person seminar for a professor to know a kid!!!
Short version: Budget is $25-30K (basically KU COA). The FAFSA says $28K for SAI but the CSS often puts us at $17-$22K. Since many places do not meet need -this means MOST public universities (besides in-state) are unaffordable.
Longer version of the list: The reason the list is full of prestigious LAC has less to do with prestige and more to do with the fact that those NPCs typically come in at $17-$24K (because they use CSS and have bigger endowments). An admission to one of those would be a win-win (if they follow their NPC) -->Strong academics at a price cheaper than our in-state.
I have a few on the list where she MIGHT be competitive for large scholarships because she wants to ‘take her shot’ at those.
DEEPER DISCUSSION: Can we trust NPCs --well - you know maybe? maybe not But filling her list with schools that MIGHT give her big merit or free rides seems like a one way trip to those posts that say “I didn’t get in anywhere I can afford” posts -and well a WHOLE lot of disappointment for everyone. So I’m trying to be logical and rely on NPCs as much as possible.
I fell down the rabbit hole of Roger Williams and their website is impressive. I’m guessing you got to visit - any impressions? Sounds like you liked it enough to apply (but guessing your child got in to a target or reach or just something that was a better final fit). It would be nice to have another ‘likely’ admit that might give adequate funding. Everyone likes choices!
I just sent a private message. Writing some here for others. He chose a different school that was also a safety because the merit was so good and just a perfect place for him. He did not get into reaches (super high reaches) and liked his choice more than the targets. For RWU, we visited multiple times and really liked the campus. Ultimately the other school was a better fit, but I like to let people know about RWU because it can be a really great option for some kids. Something like 40 percent of dorms have a view of the water. I wanted to move in. I also just love Bristol.
Edited to add: Also in private message but wanted to also put a plug in here for Niche Direct Admissions. My son did that for RWU over the summer. Super easy. Got an acceptance by mid September with merit money attached. It is hard to explain how important it was to have this acceptance and money in hand for my kid going into this stressful process. Such a confidence builder. And it allowed him to apply to fewer schools because he could say, would I go there over RWU? There is no reason to think he wouldn’t have gotten in, but something about an official acceptance was powerful for my kid. All the schools on Niche are not very selective but we know some others who did the same, and it was similarly freeing for those kids as well.
I definitely emphathize with this, but that’s why if this was my kid, I’d want at least two GUARANTEED affordable schools (i.e. the sticker price falls within budget or there is a merit aid chart that shows the scholarship she’d receive which would make this school fall within budget) that my kid would be happy to attend. So KU is definitely within budget, but it’s the only guaranteed one on your list, I believe.
So that brings up other options like:
There may be other options (like SUNY Brockport, Plattsburgh, or Geneseo) or others that would be guaranteed to meet the price, but I didn’t look at their specific scholarship pages. But I’d look to have two schools that are extremely likely to admit AND guaranteed to be affordable in order to ensure that your D has a choice in the end. Hopefully (and perhaps likely) she will have more than just two schools to choose from, but there’s the comfort of knowing there WILL be a choice available.
I like Central Michigan - I think it has a lot to offer and easily within budget (based on sticker price without any merit). I only looked at SUNY Geneseo but I’ll go and peek at SUNY Oneonta.
I just looked at the three SUNY schools I just mentioned, and two of them are guaranteed affordable.
The billed costs are $37,086 (source) and as an out-of-state student she would qualify for the Welcome to New York Grant ($9k/year for room & board and $2500 for educational costs, source) bringing the cost to $25,586/year.
As an out-of-state student, your D would receive the $5k Empire scholarship (source) and be eligible for the Green ($2500/year for 88+ GPA), Gold ($4500/year for 93+ GPA), or Prometheus Scholarships ($6k for honors program) on top of that. Direct costs are $32,718 for out-of-state students (source), so at minimum your D is looking at $27,718, and depending on which additional scholarship your D receives (I’m certain she’d receive at least one), the costs would drop even further.
Geneseo’s direct-billed costs are $36,002 for out-of-state students (source), and though the scholarship page indicated that more money was being directed to merit aid, there was no good way of assessing the extent of merit on the scholarship page (source).
Doing this for all the schools whose NPC does not come back favorably can help to figure out what other options might be good additions to your D’s list.
Are you divorced? Own investment or rental property? Have investments structured in a complex fashion (i.e. a partnership where you file a K-1, stock in a closely held family business, etc.)? And most important-- do you have your “mentally designated retirement funds” in any vehicle besides an IRA, 401K, etc? Are you self employed or have a gig business on the side which allows you to write off home office expenses, use of a personal car, etc?
If none of these apply to you-- then the NPC’s ought to be pretty accurate. The NPC formula is not designed for more exotic situations (even if you don’t get a lot of income from a partnership for example-- it can complicate the calculations) but it is relatively predictive for a two income couple who both have earned income from a salary with a W2, have a checking account and some savings or “regular” type investments (Microsoft stock, a municipal bond, and a money market account).
The only caveat- if the values you start to get from the NPC’s vary wildly (i.e. one college says you’ll pay 35K, another college which is somewhat similar tells you you’ll pay 3K) come back and someone here can help you. We have some VERY savvy financial aid folks here who know the formulae backwards and forwards!
We are very basic - no oddball financial situations here. And GENERALLY the NPCs are either 17-22K or way out of our price range (like 40-45K because I’m guessing the schools don’t meet full need?). Given the SAI of 28K and very minimum assets the 17-22K seems rationale.
ETA: The schools on our list (not the longshot ‘maybe she’ll get a big scholarship’ but the target and reaches) – are all super consistent.
And also the larger merit awards that change the scenario completely. Wish I had some better insight on where she is likely to be successful. If we afford a college counselor who might REALLY know -we probably wouldn’t be as worried about how much college costs – haha!!! I appreciate the kindness of folks here on CC!
It doesn’t even really reflect prestige does it? Interesting! I think one could get a good education at any of them really.