<p>The number of schools is a difficult question to answer. If your student wants MT and only MT, he needs to be aware of the acceptance statistics. Unfortunately reading them and lliving them are two different things. If your MT student has been in a number of venues where he has known many students who have gone down this path, and can gauge himself against them, it is helpful, though not always accurate. If he is a good student with SAT scores higher than the norm at the schools where he is applying and has had MT experience where he has done well relative to kids who are currently in MT programs, it is a pretty good indicator that he will get into a MT program. If you are shooting in the dark where you don’t know many people who have gone down this path but your student has always had the lead in school performances, community theatre, you do need to proceed with more caution. It seems to me that this is the category (along with those who are truly clueless about the process and decide to audition as a lark) that have the most disappointments. </p>
<p>By applying to some early or rolling programs, you are giving the auditions a litmus test of sorts. If you get lucky like Lexasmomlbj’s D did, (not diminisishing the talent end of it), you can eliminate a number of scheduled auditions or even the rest of the audition schedule. That is truly the best thing to occur as you limit the stress, time, travel, expense IF you get in somewhere. Everything else becomes pure gravy and elective. But if you do not get positive feedback, you may need to reconsider your options. You still have time to do this in December. You can schedule auditions at the Unifieds, you can add some non audition strong arts schools, consider some other types of programs. You can also call the schools where you auditioned and find out what the problem is and make adjustments, though often you may not get any helpful information, as the sheer number of kids interested in this program makes it so that qualified kids are denied. I truly feel that early feedback is crucial for those kids who have not been around the type of kids auditioning for these programs as the competition is not going to be like anything they have ever experienced. My son goes to a school that is strong in theatre arts offerings so that some of the kids who are not the top contenders there are still strong in the audition categories of schools beating out kids who are perenial leads in their school/community programs where the competition is not as intense. The other category of kid that seems to hit a streak of rejections, is the very talented kid who has weak academic stats. With the competition is as tough as it is, even if academics are only 10%, 5% of the total consideration, that is a tough hurdle for kids weak in that area since there are som many kids that are not only triple treats in the performing arts but are also outstanding academically. You can see that the merit/talent awards are generally given to the kids with the high academic stats; rarely if ever is it given for pure talent, and in those cases the kid has something rare that the school is seeking in addition to the talent. There is much, much talent here, so it is not reason enough to get accepted or get money. So kids with weak stats should have a number of schools where they are in the midstream academically, along with some schools that are not as concerned with the academics (Bos Co, Roosevelt come to mind) The school college counselor told us from the onselt that there is a direct relationship between the academic stats and the acceptances even for these programs that so intensely audition, something I did not completely believe upon the onset of my son’s auditions. Now having seen the results for a good number of kids, having met some kids on the audition trail, I can see she was right. Not to say that high grades and test scores will make you a shoo in, but not having them is a definite detriment to your chances, and if you are looking for money, they are essential.</p>
<p>Copy, paste and print what Jamimom wrote above. We are living proof. B average, top 1/3 in class (performing arts h.s.), horrible sat’s (just a bad test taker), excellent letters of recommendation. Did not bother to apply to NYU, UMich, U of Miami, etc. Made a trip to audition at Emerson early action - I would not have done this - they DO care about SAT’s and she did not get in. We did however get into BOCO, Roosevelt, Hartt, UArts. We are still waitlisted at Syracuse. Jamimom is correct about the money offers dealing with academics first. We did not get any scholarship offers and did not submit a FAFSA. Husband has a jar on his desk asking for donations to D’s college fund.</p>
<p>Just curious - don’t mean to pry and I realize that most will not want to discuss this…but I am still trying to figure out how everyone pays for this. Our income looks great by IRS standards, however, like many I know we barely make our budget every month. We have some savings but nothing that could begin to cover the tuition at some of these schools. There is no way we would be considered for any “needs” based awards. I feel like we are in the “twilight zone”…too well off to get help, yet too poor to afford college…can anyone give me some solace? What about student loans that have payment deferrals?</p>
<p>I’m was in the same situation as you NOCCAMom; the amount of money my parents earn makes us seem really well off on paper, even though with the usual daily living costs not much is really left over. Filling out FAFSA really didn’t do me a whole lot of good; I didn’t qualify for any grants because we don’t fall under the income ceiling, and my estimated family contribution was A LOT! The best way to save money on college is to attend a community college for a year or two, and then transfer to a 4 year institution. And there are always scholarships you can apply for; don’t rule out scholarships just because you think that you don’t have the grades. There are lots of scholarships given for various skills, talents, backgrounds, or a great essay. </p>
<p>Most student loans don’t require payment until about 6 months after graduation. In California, if your EFC ends up being even a little bit less than the projected cost of college, then you will be offered a subsidized loan for the difference, where the interest is paid for you. The rest of the cost will be covered in unsubsidized loans, where interest is accrued. In almost all cases, payments don’t have to be made until after graduation, though interest does accumulate.</p>
<p>You are in the same boat as many, many people. Too rich for financial aid, too poor for pay without pain. If your MT student has high grades and stats, it seems to me that there are a number of merit awards out there as some of the schools with MT programs are eager to bring up those SAT scores of the school. From what I can gather, the more generous awards are not from the department but from the school itself. A kid with a 1400 SAT is usually not going to apply to Emerson, so if he does, he will likely get some merit money even if he is applying as a MT major. Harrt, OCU, Elon, CCM, just to name a few, all offer merit money, and it can be generous. The talent awards that I have seen that are departmentally offered tend to be below $5K; where I see kids make out is if they have good academic stats. So alot of the MT and drama programs are good bets for merit packages for such students. Also there are a number of such schools with relatively low sticker prices. That with the loans, may get you through. I know my friend was seriously considering SUNY Buffalo for her son who has gotten into a number of programs because as NY state resident, the cost would be very low, plus I believe he got some merit money there. State schools with programs can be a good consideration. Our state has a small program within its theatre program that offers some excellent opportunities and for us it would have been free as S got a full academic scholarship there. If cost and budget are big issues, a few financial goodies like that need to be added to the choices. Otherwise, MT colleges are paid for the same way you pay for any colleges. The private ones tend to be very, very expensive unless you get a good financial aid or merit award. Your state schools are less, and there some low sticker price schools out there as well with good theatre programs where you may be able to put together a good MT regiment.</p>
<p>Concerning college costs…
We are also what you would consider middle income people and we did not qualify for need-based aid. my d got a very substantial merit scholarship from OCU, but it still only covered about half-tuition for four years. I would still recommend filling out the fafsa, however, because when colleges build your financial aid package, which can include student loans (minimal), parent PLUS loans, and work study,they use the fafsa information. Also, my d applied for every local scholarship she was eligible for and will receive some help there (but only for the first year). Some parents we know are using home equity lines to help pay for college (and its tax deductible). I think that if you really want this for your s or d,you will find a way to make it work and that several of these colleges will try to help you find the money you need.</p>
<p>I definitely concur that everybody should fill out the FAFSA, whether or not you think you’re going to be eligible for financial aid. You just never know. We’re living proof of that. At first glance, it would appear we are not within the income levels for need-based aid, but digging deeper gave us a considerable level of financial aid, which is helping tremendously. It takes little effort to fill out the form and it could reap big rewards.</p>
<p>Also, apply to your schools early, so that you are eligible for any merit-based scholarships. My dd was given a sizable merit scholarship, in addition to a talent-based one and had a lower GPA and test scores than a friend of hers who applied later. Rememer, the early bird catches the money.!!!</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the responses! I feel better that we are not alone, but it still sounds like there will be some stretching to do. I was also told by the HS counselor to fill out everything you have the time and energy to do because you never know. All we can do is try, right? This topic probably merits a separate thread especially for new folks who may not realize that talent alone will not get you into the schools that you want. I think this is a common misconception. Especially for kids, like mine, who are middle of the road in academics. I think some people give our kids a false impression of what it really takes to be accepted into university regardless of how talented you are. I have started having some very frank conversations with my S and D about what reality holds for us. I am not going to disallow them to audition for their “stretch” schools because I think the experience is valuable but they understand that even if accepted, unless there is substantial awards or loans, they simply won’t be able to attend.</p>
<p>NOCCAMom, you and your kids will have the advantage that you are going into this with your eyes open. There were parents who thought that their highly talented student would get some major awards since he/she is considered such a super star in the community. When I entered the process, I thought that the fact that S was a triple treat and male who be a great hook. Well, the hook is like the one they use to pull you off the stage. Many of his schools were shoo ins academically; it was the MT part that made them reaches, super reaches. He did get some merit awards but they were all because of his high SATs, not because of his audition or resume, and if he had had higher grades, he probably would have gotten even more money offers. The money offered was in direct relationship to the academic stats, from what I could see with all of the kids we know who went the audition reoute. </p>
<p>My friend, whose son had mid level 1300’s in SATs and a B- average did get some merit money ranging from $1000-5000, from those schools where his SATs put him in the upper 25% to give you some idea of the threshholds, and they did not apply to the smaller, less known schools, where they may have even gotten a little more. My son’ s classmate with SATs a bit lower and grades about the same from his prep school also got some merit money in that range, and also from some non MT school with strong PA programs. They also included low sticker price schools so they had a good range of option, but they were more interested in theatre and acting programs and applied only to a few MT schools. </p>
<p>The only comfort is that you would be in the same boat even if you were not looking at MT programs and that in looking at these programs some schools, not on most college lists with lower sticker prices, and lower merit scholarship threshholds are possibilities. Schools like SUNY Fredonia and Buffalo are not as expensive as some out of state schools, and they do give nice merit awards without the academic numbers having to be so high. Some of those little schools that are not so well known but have great MT/theatre programs are not that expensive and may well give some merit money. The big boys do not tend to budge, but you are quite right allowing them to audition, because despite what the experience overall may show, you never know what may happen on an individual basis. There is a young lady in PA who did get into TIsch with a very nice package this year that belies a lot of what is being said here–don’t know the details, just through the grapevine, don’t know her stats, but it was a combo fin aid/merit award. It’s just that you do not want to go into this expecting a full scholarship because of what wonderful talents your kid has–there are many, many kids with talent in this area. My son could have gotten into Michigan (well, likely, I think) and CMU if he were NOT looking at MT as a major. As it was he was rejected and waitlisted. Don’t know what would have happened with Syracuse and Emerson, but I am pretty sure he would have been an academic shoo in, but I wouldn’t bet a dime he would have made the MT cuts. And as for scholarship, doubt he would have gotten anything at any of those schools.</p>
<p>I’d encourage people to apply for financial aid even if they feel they might be over the upper limit…like if in the middle class to upper middle class (whatever that means, I am not even sure myself, but simply saying not low income). Many factors go into the “figuring” and if you have two in college, that also affects the aid. We applied for financial aid (need based) with both our kids and get it. Also, I did not realize until acceptances to the MT BFA programs came last month, but they all seem to give out merit aid too (some based on just academics but some based on talent or both). Most were quite significant. So, it exists ON TOP of financial aid that is needs based. </p>
<p>Jamimom, again your post is right on and so wise, as usual. I do want to tell you that I bet your son would have qualified for merit aid at Syracuse…my D was a Founders Scholar there (as well as selected to Honors College) and that award was $12,000/year and I know, for instance, that your son had higher SAT scores (and lots else going for him). I think you’d be surprised, as I certainly was. Emerson even gave more but I THINK theirs might be needs based so that is not the same point as I was making about Syracuse. </p>
<p>As far as how do some people pay for all this…just like the original inquiry, we certainly cannot shell out these tuitions for one or now two kids per year at all. After aid and all, it involves a great deal of loans that will be paid for years. The other thing is if your kid is not home any longer, then whatever you spent for them per year for things growing up, you can put toward college (that is not enough but it is something)…like the money spent on lessons or summers and things that people did at various levels for their kids before college. But suffice to say that many of us do not have the money to plop down to the college out of the yearly income that year. Many are not willing to take out the loans and so ask how to come up with the money but some of us really have taken out many college loans and thus will pay it out for the rest of our lives I think!</p>
<p>I agree with the message to fill out the FAFSA forms. Even if you don’t receive any scholarship money, your student may qualify for work study which will work around your student’s schedule and low interest loans that don’t have to be paid back until after they graduate.<br>
I am a believer in letting your child major in what ever they want to, but I would also discuss their future earning power as a performer before they take on large student loans. Actor’s Equity publishes an annual report that is an eye opener.</p>
<p>Happydays, that is a very good point regarding a performer’s ability to pay back loans. In my post, however, I was mentioning loans but I should have clarified…not loans for the student. While the aid package had student loans, we plan to pay those for our child. As well, if your aid package is not enough (it never is, lol), parents can take out PLUS loans to pay for the remaining balance (up to the total cost of tuition/room/board) for their student. I am not suggesting this is for everyone but just pointing out that some parents are taking out loans to pay these tuition bills…as well as pointing out that it is worth trying for financial aid even if you are not low income because you may be surprised (unless of course, you are wealthy). Just talking of those in the so called “middle” …the ones who don’t make enough to shell out 40,000+ per year but don’t think they are poor enough to qualify for aid because you very well might. Was also trying to explain that not everyone who is sending their kid to an expensive college can afford it but the option of taking out loans as a parent is there.</p>
<p>Susan, don’t know about Syracuse. Though S had very high SATs, his gpa was not up there, and a student at his school with the same SATs and slightly higher gpa did not get much merit money, and was turned down by a couple of state schools. Actually, his school would not have an impressive list of kids getting merit aid because the gpas tend to be deflated and non weighted and there are no AP designations given. Some colleges are not set up to look at AP tests taken and those scores and then adjusting the gpas. Don’t ask me why they won’t do it; they just won’t. So you get kids who are rejected by UMich, UVA, Penn State who would not have been, had they gone to most any other school. Few kids go to the larger state school. Syracuse is private so, they just might have made the adjustment, but then I don’t think his audition there was that great anyways as I believe it was the first audition for him, and he did it in October. He had visited the school earlier, and hated it (one of those visits to hell stories), but then looked at the school in a whole new light when he revisited for auditions. I do not recommend that school as one of the first auditions to do. Of course all of this is pure speculation since I don’t even know if he would have even been accepted at Syracuse for MT, much less get a scholarship. But I am pretty sure that he would have gotten in as almost any other major. And so it goes with many of the schools; probably all of the schools on your D’s lists would have definitely been accepts for a non MT program. It was the MT part that made them reaches for anyone. A bad audition, someone who just didn’t like the audition, not the right type, etc and that’s it with MT. </p>
<p>But had my son gone the MT route, he could have gotten some very nice awards at schools that would not have been on his list had he not been looking at MT programs. Since we did not apply for financial aid, the only type of awards that he could get are academic and most have a gpa/SAT dual requirement where he could meet one threshhold but missed the gpa marks.</p>
<p>We struck a deal with our son who is attending Emerson, going into his junior year (I can’t believe it!). We are paying for part of his education, and he is paying a share (student loans). Fortunately, the college has given him a very nice scholarship which lesses the burden. We wanted him to “own” his education and perhaps value it more because he is paying for it. I know these kids are “driven” and work incredibly hard at what they love, but that added incentive makes it less tempting to cut a class.</p>
<p>This sounds like a good plan to me. We told our s that if he wanted to attend an out of state university that we would support him but that he had to help in some way either thru loans or scholarships. We told him that if he loses his scholarship money he will be returning to an in-state school. It has been a great incentive for him and he has kept his grades up. Another bonus has been that part of the deal to keep his scholarship is to perform so many hours of community service a semester which has been a worthwhile experience for him.
This brings to mind that a good question to ask the university offering scholarship money if it is guaranteed for four years (usually based on meeting a certain GPA) or if the student has to re-apply every year.</p>
<p>My d got at nice merit scholarship from OCU and provided she keeps a certain gpa, it is renewable for 4 years. She knows that without this scholarship that she would not be attending OCU, so it really is a good incentive to work hard and keep up her grades. Also, she applied/got accepted to the Honors college, which gives her additional points toward her gpa, so that helps out, too. To help with the rest of the cost (after additional scholarships,etc) we did get a PLUS loan that we will begin making payments on as soon as the money is disbursed, so my d will not graduate with a ton of debt (but we will…of course, we are better able to pay!)</p>
<p>*Stay Healthy!
*Go in there with a POLISHED confident performance
*LOVE your material
*Have at least 3 monologues memorized and performance ready
*audition for a variety of schools… and a lot of schools (i’d say as many as you possibly can)
*work on your physical appearance (start working out, get in shape)
*When in the interview PERSONALITY IS KEY… show them the wonderful, energetic, talented person you really are. Have tons of ENERGY!
*No matter how great you think you are, apply for a variety of schools (a couple top ones, a couple middle, a couple easier ones)
*Don’t procrastinate
*Be organized
*Look at the audition as a chance to perform
*Don’t let the auditors be the only judges… what does that school have to offer you?!
*and most importantly HAVE FUN! And don’t worry too much… a heck of a lot of people make it w/out getting into one of the top-knotch schools.</p>
<p>My friend’s older child, again, was an A student but did very poorly on all SATs, like about 1120, and ended up with $7,000 from CCM, $7800 from Baldwin Wallace and full tuition to Univ. of Maryland. At first I thought the conservatories have more freedom to only pay attention to talent, but the Univ. of Maryland?</p>
<p>Most state schools consider gpa/class rank very heavily. My son and many kids at his private school did not do as well on merit awards because of that, despite very high SAT scores. I am not sure about that full award from UMD; it could well be a combined package of merit within need as I do know that their merit awards have an SAT1 cutoff that is above 1120. You will often hear anecdotes that will belie everything you know. They may or may not be true. Often there is some piece of information missing. I don’t know how many times I hear about the merit award or athletic award from a school that I well know does not give money except within the context of need. And, of course, it really doesn’t matter what someone else got in the end. It is what your student is likely to get when you try to put together a nice list of prospects where your student will be happy, he will get the training he wants, where he has varying chances of getting in with some sort of safety net and some propect of aid if you need it.</p>