Reflections of an elite legacy parent


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My only revenge is that Cal and Stanford lost their quarterbacks to NFL and graduation.

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Nah, that is not the only revenge. Next time when they hit you up during fund raising, tell them that they get $100.
My younger one is really close to her older sibling. So, she ED to her sister’s school. They deferred her and then rejected her. I think it is a good thing - I think the outcome is a lot easier on my wallet.
At any rate, my wife was rather stingy with the school after that. :o)

Interesting thread. I wanted to share my experience with this process for my D, HS class of '16, who will be a freshman at my “single initial” alma mater in September (to borrow the term used by JHS).

D applied SCEA with toll-free/one-and-done SATs and SAT IIs, a 99 average at a school that historically sends ~20% of its graduating class to the Ivies, and some pretty in-depth/unusual ECs relating to community service and writing. She had been on what H and I jokingly call a “geek recruiting” visit the fall of her senior year for the Creative Arts & Humanities Symposium hosted by the university but had not submitted her SCEA app when she was selected for the symposium, so we don’t think the university knew she was an alumni child when she was offered the fly-in.

On and off I have been a very involved alum on a national volunteer level but definitely not someone who has ever given an amount that would put me in the development pool or even the reunions “special gifts” category of my class and my last big volunteer role concluded about 8 years ago. I would guess that my alumni profile is “coded” in some way to show that I’m active but I definitely don’t have a current relationship with any administrators at the university.

D was admitted and the college process was over by the end of the Christmas break. She withdrew the few other apps she had in, so we have no way of knowing if any of the other single initials or other tippy tops would have found her to be a desirable candidate. Perhaps so, perhaps not.

As a data point, a classmate and good friend of mine has a son in the same HS class at a different private school in my town. I am not privy to his grades/scores but by all accounts he was one of the top students at his school, and would have been a 3rd generation legacy had he gone to him mom’s/my alma mater. Both his mom and his grandfather donate at a high level (5 figures). He was deferred SCEA and then admitted in March. Interestingly, he was admitted regular decision with no hooks to Stanford and MIT, and chose MIT.

His mom and I agree it’s bewildering that he was deferred from our alma mater given that he must have had something appealing to have been accepted unhooked by both S and M. Perhaps his essays showed he wasn’t totally committed to his SCEA school, so it didn’t want to “waste” an SCEA slot on him? By contrast, when my D arrived home from the symposium, she hand-wrote letters to both to the admissions rep that handles her school and the dean of admission and told them how much she enjoyed the program and that she would definitely accept her offer if admitted.

I think the only takeaway for my own and my friend’s experience is that things might - or might not - look clear in retrospect. We might ** think ** we know why one legacy was admitted SCEA and the other wasn’t, but we really don’t. It also may be a congruence of a lot of little things.

My D had a great list of schools she would have been happy at, and we focused on what a good experience she would have at any of the schools on the list, and the importance of resilience and flexibility throughout the whole process. Reminding her of those things also helped me as an alum.

I’m the first to admit that as much as I tried to be objective about the process, it would have smarted (a lot) had my snowflake not been accepted.

Best of luck to others who find themselves in this situation in the future. @DHMchicago your D is obviously quite talented and will have an amazing experience at UCLA. I suspect you will be calmer throughout the process for your younger kids once you see how your D thrives at her school. Thanks for starting the thread.

To round out this story, OP is really old, “so old that…” my tuition at S was 3200/yr, H was 6000/yr. Cal was 600/yr, CSU was 300/yr. McEnroe was in the next dorm. “A” students went to any old college (or not), Davis and UC Santa Cruz were more popular than Berkeley. I was a weird kid for even applying.

Not that I have been completely out of it. I had been interviewing for S (with nobody getting in) but didn’t really know if/how much legacy weighed in. Realistically, my D needed a thumb on the scale (although she is awesome). Its all good. I had an amazing time at these places (but also at others), and would wish that kind of experience for anybody. But maybe it was more normal then…

I’m actually glad for my childhood digging around in the backyard. Our activity of “mud roads” probably set me on my road to being an architect.

For my oldest the one that really smarted was not getting into Caltech. Even though it actually wasn’t the best for his field, it felt like such a good fit when we visited. (DH had gone to grad school there, but don’t think Caltech has legacy admissions even for undergrad alums.) He actually ended up at a perfect fit in the end, turning down the legacy he got into.

My oldest is smarter than either of his parents, we think, but I don’t think the internet did it. It was obvious when he was a toddler that he was unusual.

@furrydog Agree with major hook: kid of teacher or professor. Our kids’ private Boarding School sends a lot of kids to Yale, making it look like everyone has an equal chance. But one of my astute kids, picked up early on that the day students whose parents teach there and the athletic recruits make up 99% of kids who get in there.

Let the buyer beware. When shopping at feeder schools, ask a lot of good questions about the matriculation stats.

CC at son’s elite HS told us non-development-level legacy means zip, nada, even at the one school where our family has generations of alums.

This. Matriculation stats from elite boarding schools don’t tell you much. At all. An interesting side is the number of BS kids who go to second-choice colleges for freshman year and successfully transfer to the first-choice school for sophomore year when they are no longer competing from the BS pool.

On one hand, I believe that non-development legacy (me!) means thisclosetonothing. OTOH, I have to say, I do know a decent number of my classmates who now have kids going to Northwestern. But I don’t know if that is just the circles I run in, which obviously skew heavily to their parents!

I think seeing it as pure marketing assumes all top performer kids produce the same level of app and supps.

“On one hand, I believe that non-development legacy (me!) means this close to nothing.”

Depends on how you look at it.

Harvard’s legacy admit rate is 30% and about 12-16% of its seats are filled by legacies. So legacies still have a very low chance of admission. But 30% vs. 6% is not nothing (even after adjusting for the expected stronger credentials and SES of the Harvard legacy pool). Princeton is 31% admit rate for legacies.

Also depends on the school. At Notre Dame, for example, legacies are a YUGE part of that school’s culture and MO. Something like 25% of the seats are filled with legacies each year.

The legacy boosts at UVA and UNC/CH are actually quite powerful (if you qualify). Because out-of-state legacy applicants are moved (for admissions standards) from the very competitive OOS pool to the less competitive IS pool. But the boost is zero for in-state legacies.

Good point, @northwesty. I would love to see the breakout of, say, the 31% admit rate for Princeton divided out by scores/grades and then whether they are considered just legacy or legacy+development.

There are also a number of legacy-athletic recruits to factor in. They tend to skew into non-helmet sports like crew, lacrosse, squash, track/xcountry, tennis, etc.

I find the “single initial alma mater” label kind of hilarious. As if anyone in the real world will know what your talking about if you say “S is really hard to get into nowadays.”

From what I have observed, legacy alone doesn’t give one much of a break if any at all in terms of stats. If you are not a recruited athlete or URM too, as legacy you will need just as strong academic credentials as those of the non-hooked. Legacy as a tipping factor when high stats are a given is already a huge advantage in highly selective colleges. Since there is only so much room for stats improvement, the non-hooked would need extra credentials (such as high achieving ECs, compelling life stories etc.) to compete with legacy kids with similar stats. Another factor that may affect the legacy admission outcome is the year in which one applies. While there’s not an explicit quota for legacy, a balance of different types of admits must be maintained every year, so in a way just as within any other “sub-pool”, you are competing within your own group…

Be careful when you look at what % of a class is legacy. That’s a reflection of how “popular” the school is among the legacy parents, but it doesn’t necessarily mean legacies get a boost.

Let’s take a hypothetical college where 10% of the class are legacies. (And let’s assume 100% yield just to make the math easy.)

That could mean
A) 5% of the applicant pool were legacies but the school loves them and over admits them;
B) 10% of the pool were legacies and they were admitted at fair share;
C) 20% of the pool were legacies and the college is tough on legacies so they under admitted them.

All of those are scenarios that could plausibly result in 10% of a class being legacies.

Likewise, in comparing two schools, if School A has 5% legacies and School B has 10% legacies, it’s not proof that School B “favors” legacies more. For all you know, School B’s pool is simply “thicker” with legacies because it provided a better experience. Maybe A grabs every legacy they can, but there are few in their pool, and B is tough on legacies but their pool is so thick with them that they wind up with a lot.

"Legacy as a tipping factor when high stats are a given is already a huge advantage in highly selective colleges. "

I have never seen anything to indicate any legacy acceptance rate of 50% or more. Therefore, it’s kind of hard to conclude its a “huge” advantage when the majority of legacy kids still get rejected.

@Pizzagirl You are greedy! :slight_smile: “Harvard’s legacy admit rate is 30% and about 12-16% of its seats are filled by legacies. So legacies still have a very low chance of admission. But 30% vs. 6% is not nothing (even after adjusting for the expected stronger credentials and SES of the Harvard legacy pool). Princeton is 31% admit rate for legacies.” sounds pretty Yuge to me!

Here’s my best guess about the “ordinary” legacy advantage after seeing a few admissions cycles play out for my kid’s friends and for the kids of my college classmates and colleagues -

It’s a bit funny, but from what I’ve seen I think you have to distinguish between the “very selective” schools and the “ultra selective” schools.

For the “very selective” schools (I’d put privates like Emory, Northwestern, maybe even Penn(?) in this category) the legacy advantage can be really big even if you’re an “ordinary” legacy. First thing you have to remember is that even though their overall admit rates are in the 10-20% range, many of these schools get their admit rates this low by relying on their ED programs for 1/2 their classes. They’re really two night and day different admissions pools. If you’re an otherwise qualified legacy who’s applying ED, then you’ve got a really good shot at getting in … not a sure shot, but way better than the average applicant. I’d say better than 50%(?) from what I’ve seen. They might even overlook a weak spot or two on your application. The legacy advantage can sometimes help quite a bit in the RD rounds too, but the bar will be higher.

For “ultra selective” schools like Stanford, the “ordinary” legacy advantage is a lot weaker. A lot of parents think that for a legacy they’ll overlook things like weaker than average test scores or grades. From what I’ve seen, that’s pretty much dead wrong. Most legacies are solidly upper middle class (at least) who’ve had lots of advantages growing up, and schools aren’t going to cut them any slack. If on the other hand the legacy student’s application is really strong - enough to make them a serious candidate even without the legacy advantage - then legacy can help swing the bar to the 30% or higher numbers that we sometimes see. Again, not a sure shot by any means, but way better than 5%.

Of course, some legacies aren’t “ordinary” legacies, or their parents know how to help them with things like getting recruited for the right sports, pursuing ECs, etc.

PG, I’d add that the figures we usually see are enrolled kids, a school like Harvard has a very high yield rate.

Or, alternatively, you may be saying, “I would like to get into a school of your type and caliber, and I can enhance my chances of doing this by applying to one such school ED. You’re the lucky winner, although the choice was more-or-less arbitrary.”

Or in some instances, you’re saying, “You’re the lucky winner because I’m a legacy at your school, and that plus ED gives me a double admissions boost.”