Rejected applicant alleges bias against Asians

Parent Cafe
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<p>No I am saying that Swarthmore has a high rate of admissions of ALL minorities, including Asian-Americans (see below). I would never pit blacks against Asian-Americans per admissions. I am making the point that ALL minorities are well-represented at Swarthmore. I think that 17% being Asian-Americans is actually high for their percent in the population. It’s a VERY small school with a HIGH commitment to diversity of all types. Surely you do NOT begrudge blacks at Swarthmore their being 12% of the Swarthmore freshman class, considering their longstanding historical and social ties to BOTH the American experience and to the Quaker values of equality and peaceful existence between all people? (If you are not familiar with Quakerism and its longstanding commitment to equality and peace, I can refer you to websites.)</p>

<p>Swarthmore College Opens Classes for 138th Year
The Class of 2010 began classes at Swarthmore this week as the College opened the 2006-2007 academic year, its 138th year of instruction.</p>

<p>The new class includes 194 women and 178 men for a total of 372 students. Of the admitted students who come from high schools that report class rank, 20 percent were valedictorians or salutatorians, 42 percent were in the top two percent of their high school class, and 82 percent were in the top decile.</p>

<p>Swarthmore’s new first-year class comes from an original pool of 4,852 applicants, of whom 19 percent were offered admission.</p>

<p>Of the domestic students in the Class of 2010, 12 percent identify themselves as African American/multiracial; 12 percent as Hispanic/Latina/o/multiracial; 17 percent as Asian American/multiracial. One percent identify themselves as belonging in the category “Native American/Hawaiian/other.” Six percent of the class is made up of international students.</p>

<p>Forty-two states are represented in the Class of 2010, as well as the District of Columbia. Members of the new class attended high school most frequently in Pennsylvania, followed closely by New York, California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Texas, Georgia, and Maryland.</p>

<p>In addition, this year’s incoming class includes 22 international citizens representing Afghanistan, Bulgaria, Ecuador, Ghana, Greece, Hong Kong, India, Latvia, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, People’s Republic of China, Republic of Korea, and Turkey.</p>

<p>Sixty-five percent of the new students attended public high schools, 21 percent private independent schools, five percent parochial schools, and nine percent schools overseas. The most popular anticipated major among the new freshmen is political science. Next are English, biology, engineering, economics, physics, history, mathematics, philosophy, and chemistry. As in years past, “undecided” is the biggest category.</p>

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Making assumptions as to ethnicity by merely checking the surname is flawed. It’ll be even more flawed as there are more inter-racial marriages between Europeans/Asians/AfAms/etc. I know people with ‘Asian’ last names who aren’t Asian at all. I know people with ‘European’ last names who are first gen of Asian. ‘Seinfeld’ had a humorous episode on the subject.</p>

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<p>collegialmom:</p>

<p>Please accepte my applology for my language.</p>

<p>A full picture is a lot more convincing.</p>

<p>I am not an advocator of asian’s right, there are unfair things going on everywhere to every ethnics. I actually agree with a policy that diversifys the college, I myself as an asian don’t want to see a college that’s 100% asian either. I am just hoping people can admin the fact and sit down to work out a better way.</p>

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<p>amother: I agree. It is a very emotional issue. I just hope that all young people have equal opportunites, and that they appreciate whatever advantages they are given in life. </p>

<p>There are so many young people throughout the world who live in really bad circumstances with little chance for a hopeful future. That’s what I really should be concentrating on, not the fine points of college admissions.</p>

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<p>For the vast overwhelming majority of Americans, including all minority groups, who does and who doesn’t get admitted to Princeton or Swarthmore or any of these other high-fallutin’ institutions doesn’t mean dogpoop to a tree. And if they disappeared from the face of the earth, in two or three decades no one would even notice.</p>

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<p>Well, if that’s what they are talking about, they certainly haven’t done their homework very well. The acceptance rate for Asian American applicants at Swarthmore has been consistently running 36% in recent years compared to an overall acceptance rate of 19%-22%.</p>

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<p>From the Trenton Times article about Li:</p>

<p>“His [Li’s] complaint seeks to suspend federal financial assistance to Princeton until the university “discontinues discrimination against Asian-Americans in all forms by eliminating race preferences, legacy preferences (which benefit children of alumni) and athlete preferences,” according to The Wall Street Journal, which first reported the federal investigation Saturday…”</p>

<p>Interesting. I didn’t realize that he also wanted to eliminate legacy and athletic preferences.</p>

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<p>“And if they disappeared from the face of the earth, in two or three decades no one would even notice.”</p>

<p>mini: If the institutions or the students disappeared?</p>

<p>“Well, if that’s what they are talking about, they certainly haven’t done their homework very well. The acceptance rate for Asian American applicants at Swarthmore has been consistently running 36% in recent years compared to an overall acceptance rate of 19%-22%.”</p>

<p>interesteddad: That is why it is so annoying that if they file complaints, Swarthmore will actually have to waste time and money answering them, when there is ABSOLUTELY NO MERIT IN SWARTHMORE’S CASE. Why don’t you volunteer to answer them for Swarthmore, I think you know more about Swarthmore than Swarthmore does!</p>

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<p>This is the press release about the study that Li is using for his complaint. Please note the following sentence: “The study also found that although athletes and legacy applicants are predominantly white, their numbers are so small that their admissions do little to displace minority applicants.”</p>

<p>"For immediate release: June 6, 2005</p>

<p>Ending affirmative action would devastate most minority college enrollment
Study finds virtually no gain for white students</p>

<p>Princeton University researchers have found that ignoring race in elite college admissions would result in sharp declines in the numbers of African Americans and Hispanics accepted with little gain for white students.</p>

<p>In a study published in the June issue of Social Science Quarterly, authors Thomas Espenshade and Chang Chung examined the controversial notion that eliminating affirmative action would lead to the admission of more white students to college and found it to be false. The assertion that qualified white students are being displaced by less qualified minority students was a prime plaintiff argument in the 2003 U.S. Supreme Court cases against the University of Michigan (Gratz v. Bollinger and Grutter v. Bollinger).</p>

<p>According to the study, without affirmative action the acceptance rate for African-American candidates likely would fall nearly two-thirds, from 33.7 percent to 12.2 percent, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants likely would be cut in half, from 26.8 percent to 12.9 percent. While these declines are dramatic, the authors note that the long-term impact could be worse.</p>

<p>If admitting such small numbers of qualified African-American and Hispanic students reduced applications and the yield from minority candidates in subsequent years, the effect of eliminating affirmative action at elite universities on the racial and ethnic composition of enrolled students would be magnified beyond the results presented here," the report says.</p>

<p>The authors also cite other studies and the actual experience of the University of California system where affirmative action has been eliminated: “The impacts are striking. Compared to the fall of 1996, the number of underrepresented minority students admitted to the University of California-Berkeley Boalt Hall Law School for the fall of 1997 dropped 66 percent from 162 to 55… African-American applicants were particularly affected as their admission numbers declined by 81 percent from 75 to 14, but acceptances of Hispanics also fell by 50 percent. None of the 14 admitted African-American students chose to enroll. Of the 55 minority students admitted, only seven enrolled in the fall of 1997, a falloff that had the effect of reducing the underrepresented minority share in the first year class to 5 percent in 1997 compared with 26 percent in 1994.”</p>

<p>Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, the report concludes, as their acceptance rate would rise by merely 0.5 percentage points. Espenshade noted that when one group loses ground, another has to gain – in this case it would be Asian applicants. Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students, with an acceptance rate rising from nearly 18 percent to more than 23 percent. Typically, many more Asian students apply to elite schools than other underrepresented minorities. The study also found that although athletes and legacy applicants are predominantly white, their numbers are so small that their admissions do little to displace minority applicants.</p>

<p>The authors based their work on models previously developed in a 2004 study where they looked at more than 124,000 elite university applicants’ SAT scores, race, sex, citizenship, athletic ability and legacy in combination with their admission decision. This more recent study honed in on more than 45,000 applicants. Both studies are part of the multidimensional National Study of College Experience, which is funded by the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation."</p>

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<p>There’s no merit in the Princeton complaint either.</p>

<p>BTW, Swarthmore has already gotten a visit from Linda Chavez’ lawyers threatening to file a complaint…about the Tri-Co minority orientation program run by Swarthmore, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr since the 1980s to give enrolled minority students a leg up entering college. The legal threat was that the orientation program violated Gratz vs Bollinger in that it was earmarked based on ethnicity.</p>

<p>Swarthmore, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr decided to open the minority orientation program up to white students. </p>

<p>I think the next challenge by Chavez, the Bush Justice Department, and the anti-African American enrollment lobby will be an effort to end diversity recruitment days and campus visits – a major tool colleges use in boosting minority applications. The colleges see this one coming and have already started in include low income white students on the invite lists for these events.</p>

<p>I don’t know if the anti-African American lobby will embrace the Asian American challenges. It might paint them in the corner since the statistical tactics used by Chavez show that white students are being given an affirmative action advantage over Asian American students. She might not want to talk very loudly about that one.</p>

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<p>“According to the study, without affirmative action the acceptance rate for African-American candidates likely would fall nearly two-thirds, from 33.7 percent to 12.2 percent, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants likely would be cut in half, from 26.8 percent to 12.9 percent. While these declines are dramatic, the authors note that the long-term impact could be worse.”</p>

<p>Why? I thought those applicants were just as qualified as the Asians and whites in the first place.</p>

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<p>I cannot speak to the legal issues.
I cannot speak to the statistics.</p>

<p>But two themes here disturb me.</p>

<p>First, amom says “It is a fact” that Asian-Americans are discriminated against in application. No it isn’t. Not in the American definition of a fact. In the American definition of a fact, we need more statistics, more information, and we need the court to settle the matter. It is however, clearly, a widely-held belief among the Asian-American community that it is true. But it is NOT a fact.</p>

<p>Second, the stereotypes that aggregate all Asians together. First, as many people have stated, the term “Asian” in this context as people are using it must mean Indian, Chinese ethnicity, and Korean. Mostly Chinese ethnicity I imagine. These cultures and countries ARE NOT THE SAME. Don’t offend people by using such a large brush. And not all Chinese ethnicity are the same. And just come to China if you don’t believe me. Northern Chinese on average are tall, and strong looking. You think Yao Ming is an anomaly? No. Just meet some guys from Inner Mongolia. You think Chinese kids have no spark? Hang out at the POS Mall in Pudong, Shanghai. Watch the kids. Plenty of spark.</p>

<p>This is the kind of discussion, in my opinion, where everyone needs to really watch themselves and condition their comments, as garland does, i.e. “In my limited experience…”</p>

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<p>I agree with that, to a point. The graduates of these high-fallutin’ schools are probably disproportionately represented in certain positions of influence (thanks to the affirmative action they have traditionally received based on being white and wealthy), so I see it as a net plus for a country to finally have minority students represented at the table.</p>

<p>In any case, the good news is that – nationally – black college enrollment has finally reached 12%, proportional to the percentage of blacks in the overall population. That is an important milestone.</p>

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<p>36% for asian? Where did you get your data? I notice that you never gave out the source of your data.</p>

<p>btw, collegialmom just quoted from “Swarthmore College Opens Classes for 138th Year” (see post #241) that says: </p>

<p>"Of the domestic students in the Class of 2010, 12 percent identify themselves as African American/multiracial; 12 percent as Hispanic/Latina/o/multiracial; 17 percent as Asian American/multiracial. One percent identify themselves as belonging in the category “Native American/Hawaiian/other.” Six percent of the class is made up of international students. "</p>

<p>So who is telling the truth? Swarthmore or you?</p>

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<p>All of these studies are based on a single parameter: SAT scores (kind of like half the “what are my chances” threads on College Confidential).</p>

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<p>Amom, an acceptence rate of 36% doesn’t mean you end up with a class that’s 36% Asian. It means that 36% of the Asians who applied were accepted. The actual number that attend Swarthmore will depend on the size of the original Asian pool and the number that actually decide to matriculate. While 36% acceptence rate seems high (since it is higher than the acceptence rate for other groups),the argument has always been that Asians deserve a higher acceptence rate because on average their grades and SAT scores are higher. It all comes down to whether the courts will buy the argumgent that when you look at two groups with equal scores and grades the acceptence rate for Asians is smaller than other groups or not.</p>

<p>Colleges IMO only have to make the argument that 1. they are not a strict meritocracy and have no interest in being one and 2. they want well-rounded classes.</p>

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<p>I agree it’s an important milestone, and I am happy Affam are treated much more fairly now.</p>

<p>However, if everything should be proportioanally in accordance with population,then you never see any asian in NFL and NBA, you don’t see proportional asian faces in congress either, should AA police be imposed on that too because asian are disportionally represented in those place?</p>

<p>I am not ask for anything, I am just trying to think in your way of reasoning…</p>

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<p>Alumother, a good many years ago there was an influx of graduate students from Shanghai into the biochemistry dept in which I was working–males and females both. They were definitely full of spark, very very different from the stereotype most Americans seem to hold of Chinese students. Great characters, really livened up the place.</p>

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<p>Both. We are talking about different things. Collegialmom quoted the percentage of enrollment in this year’s freshman class. I gave the acceptance rate for Asian Americans, i.e. the percentage of Asian American applicants who were accepted by Swarthmore.</p>

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<p>Which data?</p>

<p>The numbers I gave for the Asian American acceptance rate came from an article last year in the school newspaper with data provided by Jim Bock, the Dean of Admissions. </p>

<p><a href=“The Phoenix - The Independent Campus Newspaper of Swarthmore College since 1881”>The Phoenix - The Independent Campus Newspaper of Swarthmore College since 1881;

<p>The Asian American acceptance rate for the Fall 2003 freshman class was 36.5%. For Fall 2004, it was 36.3%.</p>

<p>The African American acceptance rate for Fall 2005 was 46% (from the article referenced above). For Fall 2006, it was 37.4% (from the article in the current Journal of Blacks in Higher Education). Interestingly, Swarthmore enrolled the highest percentage of black freshmen this year (11.6%) ever at a highly-ranked liberal arts college, tying the old record (also set by Swarthmore) from 1998. Just goes to show the year to year variation; Swarthmore has really struggled to enroll black students for a couple of years with percentages far lower than that. Amherst has also seen signficant year to year variation. There is tremendous competition for highly qualified black students, not only from Harvard, Princeton, and Yale, but from the increasing number of merit aid schools.</p>

<p>When I give enrollment data, it is either from college press releases or from the College Department of Institutional Research:</p>

<p><a href=“Institutional Effectiveness, Research & Assessment :: Swarthmore College”>Institutional Effectiveness, Research & Assessment :: Swarthmore College;

<p>You will see links for current and historic enrollment data, factbook links, and Common Data Set links, all of which contain detailed information on minority enrollment. Most colleges have similar websites providing a wealth of information.</p>

<p>Another good site for historic enrollment data is the WebCasper IPEDs database that allows custom database reporting for the college or colleges of your choice, including undergrade enrollment broken down by ethnicity. I have used this data to graph enrollment by ethnicity at several school dating back to 1976. The graphs for Asian American enrollment are so striking that I just shake my head at any suggestion of discrimination. Asian American enrollment has skyrocketed at most elite colleges and universities.</p>

<p>The data on acceptances this year, broken down by race such as:</p>

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<p>are from this college press release:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/news/releases/06/class2010.html[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/news/releases/06/class2010.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>"
All of these studies are based on a single parameter: SAT scores"</p>

<p>Not true. You still have essays, recs, EC’s, GPA, class rank, AP scores, SAT II scores, difficulty of courses, short answers …</p>