<p>That’s a good question. But in the sales world, it’s numbers driven. He was an average performer. While this firm was actively recruiting at black colleges to boost their minority mumbers, they would have hired & retained aliens from planet Nebulon if they could bring in the numbers. I personally couldn’t care less about his race, but I did have to be careful because it was known he was my friend. Some other sales managers would try to encourage black reps to work black sales districts, like Harlem or BedSty. But the black reps would always say in essence, if they were wearing a tie, being black wasn’t going to win points in a depressed black business district. Harlem has really been gentrified since I used to make calls there, I believe. Female reps occasionally had problems being taken seriously at some businesses, too. I did have to consider race with Spanish speaking clients, though. The reps were all understanding when I had to send a Latino rep out. Often they would come to me & ask to swap accounts because of language barriers. At any rate, what I taught my reps was to serve the customer. Don’t take anything personally, even if race or gender were obvious problems for the customer. Move on to the next customer, work like a dog, and remember that success is the best revenge.</p>
<p>Again, the issue is not whether or not the Tri-co program is open to white students. The issue is why Linda Chavez and her anti-minority enrollment benefactors feel the need to waste Swarthmore’s, Haverford’s, and Bryn Mawr’s time and money with legal threats. It’s not like there is a long history of excluding white students at these colleges. It’s not like any rational person could object to programs that increase the enrollment or graduation rates of minority students (African American, Latino/a, and Asian American) at schools such as these. Of all the injustices in the world a legal action firm could target, I’m struggling to understand why this “injustice” warrants the attention. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that all of the academic enrichment programs at Swarthmore are open to all students (and widely used). That is not the issue here.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that all college sponsored events and entertainment are free at Swarthmore, a long-standing policy to ensure that low-income students (of any ethnicity) are not excluded by a $5 admissions fee. Keep in mind that Swarthmore sets up their study abroad program so that it is just as simple for a low-income aid student to select ANY study abroad program as it is for a multi-millionaire student…in fact, the school socks it to wealthy students to subsidize study abroad for low income students.</p>
<p>Again, I ask a simple question for which nobody seems to have an answer: Why? What is the motivation?</p>
<hr>
<p>BTW, just to be clear. I, personally, have some reservations about closed minority groups on campus. But, I don’t need Linda Chavez to help me. If my reservations are strong enough, there is a very simple solution: choose a different college. There are plenty out there that make little or no effort towards diversification. That’s the great thing about a free market. I don’t think we need Linda Chavez and the Bush Education department to impose their priorities on every school in the country, particularly when the justification is as bogus as the notion that white students are being discriminated against in higher education.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So do I. And I see that, more and more, colleges are reaching out to non-minority disadvantaged students. I believe that Questbridge is available to Asian-Americans. The Harvard Financial Aid Initiative is based on income, not ethnicity, and so on. I believe we will see more and more of these programs.</p>
<p>I also see value in ethnic diversity as well and of other kinds of diversity. This is particularly true of top colleges which could so easily fill their entire classes with rich prep kids from the Northeast and Mid Atlantic states. </p>
<p>Some anecdotal evidence. My S has a number of high school classmates who are African-Americans and some who are Asian-Americans. Some of the Asian-Americans are now at Harvard, Brown, Yale, and so on. As are some of the African-Americans. Of the latter, all were NMFs, two graduated from high school at 16, three were double legacies at HY, one was an athlete and had a famous parent. One African-American friend applied early to an Ivy and did not get in despite being NMF and very smart according to my S, but eventually ended up at a top 20 school. S does not know anyone who got into a top school on the basis of ethnicity alone.</p>
<p>idad, I think you’re exactly right. I’m not crazy about this specific program, because I think it had the effect of increasing social segregation in my class at Bryn Mawr. But the central reason that I would never fight to end it is that it’s got to be #82,375 on the list of the most severe educational injustices going on in America today. This is where you spend your limited resources? Here, and not on the kids whose schools have no books, or the kids who are physically afraid to go to school? Why?</p>
<p>Hanna:</p>
<p>Nobody wants to address the “why?” question because the answer is obvious. In politics (which is what Linda Chavez’ group is), I have found that answers only come when you cut through the rhetoric to find the underlying result that is sought.</p>
<p>The goal Chavez is trying to achieve is reduced African American enrollment in US colleges and universities. She can dress it up in a pretty party dress, but, to the degree that she is successful, that is inevitable result of her efforts…and she knows it. She also knows that goal is the reason her supporters contribute financially to the effort. Look no further than UCLA and Cal-Berkeley.</p>
<p>Why are Bryn Mawr, Haverford, and Swarthmore threated with legal action? Because these schools have been very successful with their long-standing affirmative action programs. Swarthmore enrolled the highest percentage of African American students in this years freshman class in the history of elite liberal arts colleges – and had the highest overall median SATs in the school’s history. Haverford is right there, too. Whatever they have been doing for the last 30 years is obviously working. Is it perfect? Probably not, but it’s working. So now we have Linda Chavez and the Bush administration riding to the rescue to nip that in bud.</p>
<p>StickerShock, my understanding is that Linda Chavez does not consider herself to be a minority. I recall Ms. Chavez from her days in the Reagan Administration and when she was a candidate for the U.S. Senate from Maryland. In describing her background she said that her father was the basis for much of her values and political beliefs. For example, she said that he despised the term “Chicano,” saying that it didn’t mean anything. Apparently, the roots of the Chavez family go back directly to Europe rather than the American southwest or Latin America.</p>
<p>idad, I have to look into her group more before I can know her motivation. She is a minority herself, remember. There is a big difference between someone who wants fairness across the board out of principle, and someone who is using the cover of fairness to purposely achieve less integration in top schools. I don’t know where she sits, to be truthful.</p>
<p>LW: I remember her stance in those days, too. For her, it was a matter of principle. She doesn’t believe in special considerations for minorities. She is not fluent in Spanish. She and her kids do qualify as minorities, though. Vicente Fox would also qualify as a minority, even though his family roots go directly back to Europe. Chavez & Fox would both be eligible for special considerations in admissions & employment. She is against the practice, as are many minorities.</p>
<p>
Well. In a country where race really matters, and where whites outnumber blacks by almost ten to one, it is no surprise to me that you became the black guys boss in a year and that he was an average performer. The black guy, by default, has to work like two dogs just to keep up. He has to work like three dogs to get ahead. I am not saying this is impossible to do. Plenty have done it. But it should come as no surprise when it does not happen.</p>
<p>Actually, Dross, we started out together doing phone sales! That’s when I passed him by & eventually hired him into my department for outside sales. I had at least double the sales numbers that he produced. Unless he had told his customers that he was black, they couldn’t possibly have known.</p>
<p>Very good, especially if he doesn’t sound black.</p>
<p>Sticker, that’s where African-Americans who support AA feel wronged; that Chavez and others argue that AA is simply “special consideration” for diversity’s sake and not redress for Jim Crow etc. Certainly the colleges share some blame in that they sought to respond the conservatives’ arguments by emphasizing “diversity” and not redress for de facto and de jure racial discrimination againsts Black Americans and its lingering results.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Colleges dropped that argument because it was roundly defeated in the courts. The diversity argument is the sole survivor. Blame judges for the death of that point of view, if you blame anyone.</p>
<p>And this is an argument that Asian-Americans find hard to accept. Those whose ancestors came to the US in the 19th century can claim that they, too, inherited discrimination (remember the origins of the word shanghaied?); those who came since the 1960s can claim that they had no hand in slavery or Jim Crow; they do not see why they should be party to reparations for past wrongs done to African-Americans when they believe it is done at their own expenses.</p>
<p>My standard response to those beliefs is that without africans to do all the hard work, America wouldn’t have been such an appealing immigration prospect in the first place.</p>
<p>It’s like people who buy sweat shop clothing after the sweat shop has been shut down. Sure, you had nothing to do it and by buying it you’re not contributing to the problem. But you still get to buy it for cheap and are therefore benefitting.</p>
<p>marite, don’t you think that ESL summer programs have acted as a sort of minority booster program for Asian Asian students? I do. I have heard some wonderful stories of ESL summer programs, friends made for life etc.</p>
<p>Stickershock…I can see how the comparisons caused you personal resentment. An interesting question might be, why do relatively wealthy black students need summer booster programs? Could it be that the experience of attending a top 20 school as an AfAm is overwhelming–despite a background of comfort? </p>
<p>I have spent a lifetime in and around private schools all over the globe–all with tiny tiny percentages of black students. I don’t think it’s an easy road for them no matter how much money or what pedigree they carry. Those young black men who live in mansions and whose fathers went to Harvard cannot go to the mall with a sign proclaiming their social status. They are not able to participate in American society with the same ease as my sons. Not at all. </p>
<p>My in laws constitute an Horatio Alger story–from the ashes of extreme poverty and extreme dysfunction to the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. However, there is no question that my FIL’s tall athletic white stature contributed greatly to his ability to attract mentors who championed him. I can safely say that a privileged and pedigreed black co-worker would not have enjoyed the promotions he received.</p>
<p>How can I say this? Well, for starters, I am the wrong gender for a successful architect. Not only did professors never champion me as a ‘star’ designer, some actively tried to bounce me out of the profession–including some quite famous architects, I might add. Employers weren’t as wicked because my talent and speed were undeniably profitable. However, they didn’t offer me a design track either–I had to create those opportunities out of stealth and thin air.</p>
<p>In the end, white males control the power in America and they naturally promote those who remind them of themselves. Call it the Paternal Problem. My relatively privileged background did help me develop the confidence to rise to the top of the profession, but it was not the deciding factor in my success.</p>
<p>Cheers:</p>
<p>S has a number of friends who immigrated from Taiwan or the PRC and are now at HYPSM. I don’t know if any of them took ESL. I do know that at Harvard, students have run a tutoring program for refugees and immigrants for many years now (probably started with the influx of boat people, but it now includes Haitians and Hispanics). I think that some of graduates of the program have ended up at Harvard; I could be wrong. But it certainly has helped many become prepared for college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Are you trying to say that the Asians came to America because they believed Africans made America a nice place for them to live?
Have you any idea of the history of Chinese immigration to America?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Certainly people would not have thought about this consciously; historians weren’t even talking about it until quite recently. But the presence of African laborers and slaves in this country, dating from its earliest colonies, did play a big role in how rich and powerful it had become by the mid-19th century, and therefore why there was work available for immigrants. We’re all a lot more intertwined than we sometimes think.</p>
<p>And would there have been a railroad linking the two coasts without Chinese laborers?
And what’s the rationale for Hispanics as opposed to Chinese Americans?</p>
<p>I don’t think it is very productive to compare degrees of victimization. That’s why I prefer to think in terms of diversity.</p>