“But I can understand why someone wouldn’t want to be called rich if they are scraping by in NYC with a studio apt and barely meeting their expenses. Sure, the same salary in Kansas might get them a huge house and an acre of land, and that could be viewed as upper class. But if the job paying you that much is in NYC, that doesn’t help you much.”
They are paying a premium to live in NYC.
You are preaching to the choir, but then again, it’s been sunny and 70 degrees the past few weeks while the rest of the country is in a deep freeze - again, tradeoffs 
They’re also choosing to to live alone in a studio apartment when they could have saved much more money in rent and other utilities by sharing a larger apartment and utilities with other roommates.
People who make $250,000 a year do not make middle class incomes.
People can disagree all they want. People can think they are turtles. I thought I read that 40 percent of people in the US believe in ghosts. Some people probably think Casper the Friendly Ghost is real. 
I can go to Belvedere…just north of SF. You might like to visit the place someday. You can take the Tiburon Ferry over. A $250,000 income is middling there. So what? You might not be able to buy a house in Belvedere with an income of $250,000. So what? The place is full of wealthy people. That doesn’t mean a $250,000 income is a middle class income.
When I was a kid, a barber could buy a house in SF. Now the middle class can no longer buy a place in SF. Now the upper middle class is struggling to buy a house in SF. Soon the well off will be struggling to buy a house in SF. The squeeze is on…
The more successful silicon vallley and SF become, the greater and faster the squueze.
I am not saying I like this. I personally don’t. I remember when Burlingame was just a nice little town. I kind of prefer those days. The days when you can drive on hwy 280 anytime with very little traffic.
Why is it okay after a certain random number depending on where in the country you live to start criticizing personal lifestyle choices? There are always ways to do things better. cheaper, smarter, whoever you are and whatever amount of money you happen to earn currently. But, a lot of variables go into all of this for everyone of every income level. And, I agree the middle is way too big.
Cameron121, I love the stats…and I was comparing Walnut Creek to SF.
And yep…the weather is fantastic here…
Keep the stats coming…
No one is criticizing anyone’s lifestyle. Aside from the discussion of the perspective of the U Mich student who wrote the article that prompted this discussion, this has been a discussion of the varying COL across the country and individuals’ perspectives on what they label themselves WRT middle, upper middle etc class. Speaking only for myself, I gave as an example a friend who has expensive taste and then worries about money. That was my only comment on lifestyle. If you (she) can’t afford a beamer, don’t buy one, even if its used. People can usually live within their means. It takes work but its doable.
My lifestyle comment was about NYC and how you should get roommates and stop complaining. Now, I don’t necessarily disagree with that but I don’t think anyone would be saying it to a guy who made closer to the lower end of middle in Kansas than the higher end of middle in NYC. The UMich student is a spoiled brat, imho. And, yes, of course there is an enormous difference between low middle, middle, and high middle but most people just hear middle and think it’s them because they do not think they are rich or poor. And, they’re not.
I made that remark because for the vast majority of NYC residents who are actually middle class or lower income, barring being in a rent stablized/control unit*, one usually need to rent with roommates to minimize rental and utility expenses along with getting more living space for their money.
Yeah, I get it, having lived in NYC with roommates. And, now with a kid headed there next month. Kansas is not an option, though.
Job market is hot in North Dakota! http://www.startribune.com/local/255044001.html And jsut think of the hook an offspring will have for college, coming from ND. Win, win!
So looking at jyms cost of living calculator, if you make 100K in Memphis, you need to make 259K to have the same standard of living in NYC. Is 100K considered middle class? Well, $103K in NYC goes only as far as 40K in Memphis. Some people would consider 40K lower middle class. Would you consider 103K in NYC to be lower middle class?
Point is, it makes a HUGE difference where you live, and saying that one specific number fits all locations is nonsensical. There are those that say you made the choice to live in NYC. Yep, sure. But that 259K job in Manhattan probably isn’t going to pay 259K is most other areas of the country (besides SF). It might just pay 100K or less.
The middle class is measured by whether they can live in Manhattan, the 20th or so most expensive city in the world?
Is the middle class messured by whether they can live in Belvedere, Ca? Really? There might not be any middle class people in Belvedere. You are telling me the wealthy are middle class?
The middle class is getting squeezed out. The middle class is unable to afford to live in some places anymore. (They could never live in Belvedere).
What is the median household income in Seattle? $65,000 to $70,000? You are going to tell me that a $250,000 income is a middle class income in Seattle.
The middle class has a range of income. It is not one specific number. Is the range 25/75 percentiles of SAT scores a specific number?
It costs more for a middle class person and everybody else to live in NYC than Memphis.
No one said this. People are considering the COL in the discussion. That’s exactly why its difficult to say what constitutes lower middle, middle, upper middle, etc, as the same dollar does dot go as far in different areas. That said, the salaries (not talking minimum wage/service sector type jobs) are usually adjusted accordingly.
I’m no economist, but it seems to me we should change the way we view economic classes.
40-30 years ago, judging based on taxable income may have worked because most people’s income was in the for. Of a taxed payroll. Nowadays, however, the tax code is such that a person may be receiving significant sums that aren’t part of the adjusted gross income. 401(K) dividends, passive income (e.g., Bain capital), certain bonds - all of this generates wealth that is not calculated as AGI.
"The middle class is measured by whether they can live in Manhattan, the 20th or so most expensive city in the world?
Is the middle class messured by whether they can live in Belvedere, Ca? Really? There might not be any middle class people in Belvedere. You are telling me the wealthy are middle class?"
I don’t think that is what I’m saying at all. I am saying (and I know that you agree), that is makes a huge difference where you live, more than people might think. Cost of living can be far higher in some areas, with commensurate salaries. A salary that may sound amazing somewhere (like 259K in NYC), will only buy you what 100K will in Memphis.
“What is the median household income in Seattle? $65,000 to $70,000? You are going to tell me that a $250,000 income is a middle class income in Seattle”
I’m not sure what the median income is in Seattle, but that could be about right. 250K would definitely be an upper middle class income. The cost of living here is pretty reasonable. Housing can be really high in some places, but you don’t have to live there. You can live in a comparably low cost area like I do, that is still easily in commuting distance to downtown. You don’t have to be Bill’s neighbor.
@cobrat, even if someone got roommates in NYC, they still would be living a much different lifestyle than they would in a lower COL area. And like busdriver said, it’s not like they can go to Kansas ( or wherever) and earn what they are in NYC.
“No one said this.”
You have definitely not said that, but some people on this thread, and anywhere else you listen to talking about salary seem to have specific numbers in mind when deciding what makes people poor, middle class, wealthy. Using the COL calculator is eye opening.
“People are considering the COL in the discussion. That’s exactly why its difficult to say what constitutes lower middle, middle, upper middle, etc, as the same dollar does dot go as far in different areas. That said, the salaries (not talking minimum wage/service sector type jobs) are usually adjusted accordingly.”
I agree.
“40-30 years ago, judging based on taxable income may have worked because most people’s income was in the for. Of a taxed payroll. Nowadays, however, the tax code is such that a person may be receiving significant sums that aren’t part of the adjusted gross income. 401(K) dividends, passive income (e.g., Bain capital), certain bonds - all of this generates wealth that is not calculated as AGI.”
That is something that aggravates me greatly. Even when I retire and get my income mostly from passive sources, I know it will bother me. Why actual work is taxed far more than unearned income is beyond me. Actually it’s not beyond me…it’s lobbyists and wealth, of which the highly taxed earned income workers apparently don’t have enough of.
What little I can recall off the top of my head in this 19 pg thread (and having just seen “Still Alice”, the failing memory is worrisome), some folks have tried to discern income bands, or percentiles or percentages to delineate class assignment, but seems most are saying its in part a relative term based on one’s expense/income ratio (well expense/income plus passive income/inheritance/savings/lottery winnings/sugar daddy/buried treasure, etc sources of funding). Kinda like “meets full need” is a relative term.