Again, remember the median you are quoting are not for families with kids in their peak earning years. A median tha includes retirees relying on unearned income or 20-something aspiring artists does not tell much about what income is needed to raise a family in a middle class way. That median would be higher - but obviously not 200K.
HUD calculates an area median, which makes a family eligible for low income housing. This is from their NYC document:
HUD has special programs for some families considered moderate income:
These values are clearly a lot higher than $50K, but still below $200K.
The City Council of NY also defined middle class:
Point being that the definition really does depend on where you are and median in NYC and its suburbs, as well as likely in LA, is different than most other places. Of course, anyone making that much money actually has the potential opportunity to live in Manhattan or a very nice suburb and have other options. That doesn’t mean it is easy to pay over $60K per year per kid for private college.
The teachers noted above may really feel middle class. They definitely started out making far less than 200K combined and may have struggled to pay off their own loans, save for a down payment, pay for childcare and other expenses of a family and try to fund college for their own children. They could be better off than other two income families, having pensions and good health benefits. They way they look at money or the amount they have been able to save is probably very different than a finance guy or lawyer that started out over 6 figures, with a wife making a similar sum, and went up from there. The teachers, while doing very well now, may not have shed that “middle class” feeling, even if their current salary puts them well above median.
Not trying to argue that 250K is middle class. But that it is not as far from it in expensive cities as many seem to think.
Jesse Klein, the girl who wrote the original article is the daughter of a podiatrist, so dad may have had some hefty school loans to pay off but Jesse’s not the offspring of a plumber or a couple of struggling teachers. Not sure what point of view that information supports but I thought I’d add it anyway.
It is not a given that a physician will outearn a plumber, after considering the physician’s much higher educational costs before getting started in his/her career.
@GMTplus7
Of course you don’t have to live in an expensive state, but your comment implies that everyone who lives in a major city should move so they can pay for college.
I don’t know why we are hung up on the “middle class” label. My point was not that $250k is middle class, just that it isn’t as plush as you might think and esp not so if you earn that money in NYC vs Flint Michigan. I agree with nottelling and mom2and. Of course $250kers have more choices. But again, if we care about diversity then how is there so little concern about whether the children from this socioeconomic class can attend? The fact that this income pays the same as millionaires do is ridiculous. And the fact that they have more choices than $50kers does not change that. No one is asking the $75k family to move and uproot their life. Just because someone earns more than you do does not mean that they do not deserve the same respect. How would $50 k earners feel if those who made more told them " Too bad for you. You should have earned more/worked harder/ done better at school and I don’t care whether you can’t attend. You had choices." Yes, the tables could be turned.
Because that’s the position of the original post and topic of the thread: “Relative Wealth - In some places an income of $250k per year really is middle class”
You can find census tracts where the median income is $250k (e.g. 5117.05), but it should be pretty obvious that these neighborhoods are well above the median for their surrounding areas.
Almost everyone likes to think of themselves as “middle class” - nothing new there.
That’s because there no name for the class between middle and rich, which doesn’t involve a bunch of awkward compound words or hyphens. Even airlines have a one-word class between Economy & First.
250k salary is comfortable, but it sure ain’t rich. Lifestyle-wise, 250k families share more in common w 50k families. 50k and 250k fly commercial and still open their own bills. The rich fly private jet and never open envelopes by themselves.
I’m going to start promoting ** “Business Class”** as the name of the demographic between middle income and rich.
You don’t live in NY, do you? We see comments just like that pop up like clockwork on social media every spring. People who make $100k+ think nothing of telling people who earn $40k, “If you don’t like it/can’t earn enough/can’t afford schools here then you can move.”
What follows is not meant as a commentary on GMTplus7 or his/her ideas about wealth.
I agree that we sometimes don’t recognize enough gradations when talking about wealth. For instance I would think of the rich person GMT describes as mega-wealthy or super rich.
I often see comments like this in discussions of income and class and I wonder if it’s because a) people don’t like to think of themselves as rich and so need to define “rich” as far above whatever their standard of living is and/or b) have spent too much time watching shows or reading magazine articles about the ridiculous and ridiculously wealthy, people like the Kardashians or Hiltons.
The vast majority of the 1% open their own mail, drive their own cars, pay their own bills and fly commercial. The difference is that they can pay the entire credit card bill each month, buy a new Lexus because the old one is six years old, send their kids to private schools because they’re a better fit than the excellent local public, or fly first class because it’s more comfortable. They may not be able to do all these things in one year because like everyone else the rich have to make choices, but aren’t those nice choices to be making?
I understand that people who earn $250,000, don’t feel like they are as comfortable as they would like to be.
Growing up with televised entertainment featuring unbelievable living spaces on a retail salary, can contribute to unrealistic expectations of life will be like when you are an adult.
I know you are probably generous with your money, giving to local schools and community progjects, but still you would like to do more. You’d like to cut back your hours, but you can’t imagine living on even less.
But I have been trying to understand why someone who makes FIVE times what many make in this country.expects to get a lot of sympathy from someone who is trying to also raise his kids, give them good food, take vacations & fix the car, maybe even every year instead of forgoing vacations, to fix the car- but on 1/5Th less.
It’s also true that some parts of the country have more jobs, affordable housing & decent amenities.
It’s generally easier for someone who makes six figures to relocate, however.
I agree there are many more gradations of income/lifestyle than our current vocabary recognizes. Even within the same income level there are differences.
For instance, a two-income family with 2 kids where the H makes $150k and the wife makes $100k have big issues and expenses with childcare, who cleans the house, who has to take the suits to the cleaners and all the tasks of daily living. They have very different lives than the one-income family where the H earns $250K, and the SAHM takes care of the kids and all the housekeeping chores.
With that income, either family could hire help.
The later scenario does remind me of a friend whose religion prescribed women should stay at home and bear children. ( she had 4).unfortunately, her husband did not have life insurance, and he died of heart disease at 38.
She was fortunate to be able to move in with her parents.
