Relative Wealth - In some places an income of $250k per year really is middle class

I guess that’s part of what bothers me about the original op/ed we’re discussing. If the writer had argued that as the child of a successful plumber and secretary earning a total of $250,000 who do not have college educations but live in an expensive area she should be considered middle class I might buy it, but seeing as she’s the daughter of a doctor, a kid who takes ski trips and buys pricey clothing brands, I have a hard time with her argument. I find her failure to recognize her own privilege disappointing.

I think the kids of the plumber/secretary can also be very privileged, but it’s not necessarily class. Sometimes it is. It’s the custom in my area for parents like that to travel to Italy frequently and the kids often have very expensive cars. Where in a situation with two college-educated parents making less money, it might be that they drive cars into the ground and forego vacations to prepare for college expenses and might have less discretionary income than the first couple. But the two families are very different in terms of priorities.

I know in my house, we were very poor when my older two were growing up. Very poor. My younger one is insanely privileged. I don’t consider ourselves upper-middle class, although definitely high income, but the kid is privileged and a half. There is no question about that, and we are so grateful that we’re giddy. But he is going to be well educated or I will pull his face off. We don’t want/need any financial assistance for college (thank God), but that doesn’t mean that kids like mine couldn’t use a little extra mentoring to make up for wha’s lacked at home. Although there is less of a lack since he’s the third! I guess what I’m saying is that money isn’t the same as class and money isn’t the only way of helping students to succeed, and don’t we all really want (a) all kids to graduate from college once they’ve begun, and (b) full-pay families to make those payments for four years, not fall by the wayside because of something that a little support could have fixed?

Business Insider has an article about this topic:

http://www.businessinsider.com/only-6-of-americans-who-make-over-100000-say-theyre-upper-class-2015-3

I think this is called “upwardly mobile.”

Exactly. Mobile kicking in screaming, but still mobile.

Zoosermom, just wanted to pop on here and say congrats to your son. How proud you must be!

Thanks, Deb! I am very proud but absolutely out of my mind with anxiety. We’ve never been apart before and I am an off the hook helicopter mom with him. It should be a great trip, though and it’s exciting that a kid of ours is getting to do something so cool. Hubby and I aren’t exactly world travelers!

I hear you zoosermom. My H and I aren’t either!

@2018dad,

That’s because they’re not Upper Class. They’re Business Class.

I wonder what percentage of the 94% make between $100,000-250,000

$100,000 is about the 79th percentile household income in the US.

D1 is in the range and single, but if you were to ask her if she is middle or upper middle class, I think she would say middle class. She lives on 50% of her income because she is worried if she will be able to afford to have kids some day.

We are in the low end of that range, but I think we are not able to live on 50% of our income in most of our working years.

Over $100,000 per year in the US would generally be seen as at least upper middle on any income-based scale.

If she continues to live on substantially less than her income, she is likely on the road to financial security.

Repeat after me:

BUSINESS Class
BUSINESS Class
BUSINESS Class…

I’d define class boundaries in terms of financial independence and stability. This depends as much on accumulated wealth as on income.

The national 75th percentile point for family income is ~$90K. That’s the upper edge of the “middle” i.e. the median band (just in terms of income.) A conservative rule of thumb is that one can count on retirement investments to earn ~4% per year. By that standard, you’d need about $2.25M (conservatively invested) to generate a secure $90K/year income without having to work another day in your life. That, to me, would be an approximate boundary marker between middle and upper class in terms of accumulated family financial wealth. By this standard, “middle class” could extend up to about the top 4% of wealth accumulators (who now control ~half the nation’s total financial wealth.)

In terms of college affordability by current income, I’d place the boundary between middle and upper middle class at the point where family income becomes too great to qualify for any need-based aid at any college. If your family makes much less than ~$200K/year, you are still eligible for (and may well depend on) need-based aid to attend the most expensive and selective colleges. So, by this standard, “middle class” extends up to about 3X or 4X the national median family income.

Either of these standards places a very large number of people in the middle class. However, I think both standards are in keeping with the way many people actually perceive themselves. It now takes over $2M in financial assets, or an income well over $200K, before most people should begin to feel they are reaching a steady state of true financial independence. The American middle class isn’t shrinking at all. It’s that brass ring of real financial independence that is receding faster and faster from their grasp.

National median overall or of families? Again, in NYC the median income for a family of 4 is about $84K. Again, it doesn’t make sense to me to define the median income of families with kids to include retirees and kids just staring out.

However, accumulated wealth, and therefore freedom from money worries, depends a lot on one’s spending habits as well as income. Someone who earns $50,000 per year but spends only $25,000 per year and saves/invests the rest will likely end up much better off financially than someone who earns $300,000 per year but spends every dollar s/he has and then some (adding to debt on credit cards, etc.). The second person is likely the one who complains a lot about the high cost of living, taxes, etc. for his/her financial troubles, never really feeling financially secure.

They both complain, actually. And they both think they are middle class.

^^ Right. “Upper class” independence requires not only a certain level of independent income generated by accumulated wealth, but also the ability to live within your means. Otherwise you won’t stay upper class for long.