<p>baller4lyfe, could you please address my post (at the bottom of page 3). I really don’t see how “mainstream religion” is any more abusive than many other accepted behaviors that parents force upon children without their “consent”</p>
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<p>Do you really believe the principles of quantum physics did not exist before humans figured out how to explain them?</p>
<p>Did blackholes suddenly appear when we invented telescopes powerful enough to see them? </p>
<p>One can master the application of physics before scientists can explain it. They’ve done it for thousands of years. People were practicing the laws of Newtonian physics and living within the bounds of gravity long before Isaac came along.</p>
<p>Seriously. You’re blinded by your fundamentalism and going to blindly insult anyone who has different experiences from you - whether they be scientific, Judaic, Christian… </p>
<p>You’re very insulting about issues of which you have no experience or knowledge. Again, I would expect more out of someone drawn to higher education.</p>
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<p>I understand what you’re saying, but you’re confusing “belief” with “trust”. You don’t have to believe anything. There’s nothing to believe. You want a way to tap into the higher wisdom? Trust - trust those hints of intuition or those random interactions in your life. Release your ego. Eventually, you will learn that there are no coincidences. You will attract everything you need to manifest your highest potential. </p>
<p>Again - see what happens. You’re trying to box this in to something you can understand. I get that. Ultimately, whether it’s psychological or mystical is irrelevant. It’s both and neither at the same time. There is no distinction. It doesn’t matter.</p>
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<p>Scientists could measure and observe if they would study the mind rather than the body. It’s very easy to do. I’m doing research right now that is returning verifiable results. </p>
<p>Please stop dismissing me as relying on psychological crutches. I understand that whole worldview. It is fundamentally limited in the same way Isaac Newton’s view of physics was. Not incorrect - just very limited. </p>
<p>Best to you.</p>
<p>evolution is sort of a religion too.</p>
<p>iwannabebrown, you are educated and i appreciate your mature response here unlike some other people who have chosen to bash or what not. basically, i’m saying its worse to force your kids to do a religion than it is to do something else. for instance, my parents never made me play soccer, and now that i’m an adult im ****ed about that because now i realize it is a great sport. i wanna learn to play it now and will soon. the opportunities in a sport do not have a sinister undertone. you may disagree but that’s what i believe. playing basketball or soccer at a young age (i play basketball) is healthy and fun and opportunities come out of it and more social ones as well (meet new people). now you’re thinking well what about religion cant you have good opportunities too to be moral meet new people and have what not. thats true, but to a very LIMITED extent, if not at all. because religion on children, if persuaded enough, will attempt to establish something beyond the norm. what i mean by this is that it will try to manipulate the mind into a trail of thought that can potentially promote intolerance because the subject that we’re dealing with is inflammatory. just like politics, never force someone to grow up liberal or democrat. we try to stay away from inflammatory subjects like politics and religion during childhood. </p>
<p>for example, a ‘catholic’ child or a ‘muslim child’ is worse than a ‘little league’ child. not worse, that is a mischaracterization, but more “prone.”</p>
<p>its ironic that i’m mentioning this because i actually like religion. just not in the conventional sense, more of a social sense. its hard to explain, but i am no enemy of religion. some philosophers are though.</p>
<p>baller4lyfe. I see what you’re saying, but still have to disagree/return to my original point that when most people practice religion (or at least, growing up in liberal NE, the religious people I know) have not been brainwashed by the sinister methods you are implying. I guess we could tie this back to my other examples. The father who forces his son to play sports so he’ll be healthy and meet other kids is good, but the father who forces his son to play sports so that the father can eventually make money by exploting his child’s talents is abusive and bad. The same thing can be said of religion. The parents who live rather secular, mainstream lifestyles while still embracing religion (celebrating holidays, maybe obeying some of the lifestyle customs) are not pushing sinister undertones. I would argue that most of what most religions teach does not have these horrible undertones that you are implying that they have, and as such, we are left with what I would not consider to be abusive behavior by the parents.</p>
<p>I think we’ve reached the crux of the argument here (and I now see that others have reached it before me, however their inane arguments masked their good points), which is: is religion bad? I certainly would not call myself an expert in religion, but from what I’ve learned about them, it is impossible to make such blanket statements about them. One of the reasons why religion is so attractive to people is the fact that you can often “pick and choose” what parts apply to you, and as such, shape the religion into a way that fits your life. I would argue that this does not lead to malintent, and as such, religion is good, and thus “imposing” it on a child is not abusive.</p>
<p>^well yeah, doing sports on kids for a father to get more money is exploitative but that seemed kind of weird because it doesn’t usually happen, at least not where i’m from. maybe in Tallahassee, lol. but my main point though is i still think religion on children is worse than sports on children, that’s my belief. both can be done, in fact i am no enemy of teaching religion to a child to have a moral compass–but to a very limited extent , and that extent can be hard if not measured practiced carefully. so i agree with you on a few issues. and i never said horrible undertones, lol. you’re taking it too far now, i just said i think its unconscionable to force a child to grow up jewish or muslims or christian more than it is to force him to play a sport. there is a keen difference in the two and religion on a child in rare circumstances can turn out good but it has to be moderate, examined, vigilant and cross-examined.</p>
<p>and i still agree with richard dawkins that labeling someone a catholic child or jewish child IS child abuse. now youre thinking well what about a basketball child or a soccer child, isnt any label just as bad, well not necessarily because subjects that are taboo or inflammatory can have undesirable results that can inundate certain beliefs of a people or group when religion can be brought into it. TRUST ME i have NEVER seen a soccer child or basketball child act awkward or intolerant; of the certain forced-faith kids i’ve seen, some damage has been done. the phrase “there is a difference” works well here.</p>
<p>but there are so many degress to “being christian” or “being jewish” that I just don’t see how you can automatically claim that labeling a child as being part of a religion is abusive.</p>
<p>brown there are different degrees but that is just a red herring to avoid organized religion altogether. if youre talking about teaching god to kid, this is islam, be a good person, dont ever steal or lie heavily and respect others and fast if you want during ramadan and remember to do good deeds this is in no way child abuse but a moral compass. conversely you are going to indoctrine your child into biblical or koranic versus that calls for the destruction of unbelievers or you euphemistically teach it with a feathery approach so he can eventually learn the intolerance then that is child abuse. i don’t care what anyone says , its abuse plain and simple.</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - Another Brainwashed religious child](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BIAYYwVuYM]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BIAYYwVuYM)</p>
<p>lol looks like Mickey Mouse has joined al-Qaeida…he prolly got mad at us Americans for not paying him enough cash on hollywood.</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - JESUS CAMP BRAINWASHING for CHILDREN](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1hhGfxjP58]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1hhGfxjP58)</p>
<p>I really don’t want to talk about this any more because i myself have a religion and believe in it to varying degrees but just wanted to point something that it should --not-- be taught in childhood. the limit to drink alcohol, to smoke, to vote all requires that you can analytically and logically reach a decision through your own judgment. the same should be done with religion meaning adulthood is the time to think about it rather than childhood. there is no “analytic thinking” in sports - its just fun and games.</p>
<p>btw, how old are you?</p>
<p>Iwannabebrown makes a good point. I grew up Catholic, but went to a secular private high school filled with Muslims, Hindus, and Atheists. I played sports and was involved in other groups that had nothing to do with religion.</p>
<p>I felt my parents balanced religion with the rest of the world.</p>
<p>I think the religion we are inundated with in the media and conservative politics has drawn attention because it’s so extremist. Children raised in those cultures are inundated in every facet of their lives with religious messages. </p>
<p>So, I agree with you baller broadly. But I wouldn’t make a blanket statement condemning all religion.</p>
<p>^i didnt condemn all religion if you read my post carefuly i implied that religion should be examined and calm when placed on children; in fact i even stated it can be good. but we get the picture already.</p>
<p>like applejack said, the vast, vast majority of people are teaching religion to kids the way you want to see it taught, baller4lyfe. This is why I have a problem with you saying something like “raising a kid ____ is abusive and that parents are forcing things onto kids that they aren’t ready for.”</p>
<p>I am a senior at Brown, why does that matter?</p>
<p>Well, I don’t know Baller. You said:</p>
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<p>That sounds pretty universally condemning to me. </p>
<p>Religion also helps individuals open to the possibilty of a reality beyond our physical experience, which can be a gateway to understanding the higher realms of science and physics.</p>
<p>Ergo; Raising a child to adhere to any particular political ideology is the same thing. </p>
<p>Right?</p>