Contract seemed to deal with landlord protections more than tenant protections but thank for the suggestions, @otterma.
@lookingforward Thanks for the link. I’ll give it a read.
Contract seemed to deal with landlord protections more than tenant protections but thank for the suggestions, @otterma.
@lookingforward Thanks for the link. I’ll give it a read.
Yes, contract is always about landlord protections, because the landlord offers the contract. But state law covers the tenants, tenants have many rights. I would definitely show them the electric bill. Some people just won’t do anything unless asked, so they definitely need to ask.
Is there evidence that the landlord had any choice in where or how the parts were ordered vs that it was in control of the repair company, not the landlord, as to how the parts were ordered. Its doesnt seem unreasonable to try to repair the system first, if it can be fixed. this country has developed a “throw away” mentality- instead of fixing something- just toss it and buy a new one. Maybe trying first to repair the system is reasonable, and maybe the landlord contacted a repair company and maybe the repair company responded quickly to try to fix it but then determined parts were needed, and the time it took the repair company to get the parts and reschedule the repair was affected by other repairs. Not saying any of this is ok- just potentially explainable.
Sure, the renters can ask for some compensation for the 2 weeks of discomfort. And the landlord should havve offered to provide heaters and blankets or something. Maybe the tenants should have asked to be put up temporarily in a hotel and the landlord could have filed a claim with their insurance company. Agree that the tenants can ask for an adjustment based on a portion of the increased electric bill, but do they pay for their heat too or is that included in their rent? If they pay for their heat, did they save any money on that bill that month?
Just proposing another view…
@doschicos - Apology accepted.
I’ll answer your second question first. IMO, in this case, “customary” wouldn’t apply. I’d hold the landlord to a standard of “reasonable and expeditious”.
Whether this standard has been met is a fact based analysis. Your initial description of the reason for the delay, “took 2 weeks to fix due to an old heating system and obtaining parts”, makes no suggestion that the landlord delayed his/her response.
If you’ll share a more precise description of the heat source and how it failed I’d be happy to opine on a reasonable and expeditious timeframe for repair.
Was it fueled by natural gas, oil. propane, or electricity?
Was it a forced air system? Radiant? Heat pump?
It’s really not a question of “fault” but one of habitability and contract. Yes, the landlord acted in good faith, but the tenants did not get what they paid for during those 2 weeks. There should be some sort of rent reduction, even if the landlord acted expeditiously. With no fault on either side (certainly not the tenants’), the landlord should not be able to pocket the tenants’ money.
And by the way, no matter how much people may whine, punitive damages are not awarded in contract actions barring completely egregious conduct.
Exactly. From the OP’s initial description (“although it was still very chilly compared to central heat, it was manageable”) it sounds as if habitability was not significantly compromised.
If I were the landlord I would have initially offered to provide space heaters and reimburse the tenant for any extra utility expense. Upon learning that the tenant was providing space heaters I would have also offered something extra for that factor. And I also would have been willing to discuss further compensation for their “pain and suffering”. But I’m a nice guy and some landlords aren’t.
If the extra electric is 150, what would 1/2 mo rent be?
Being in the NE, there is a chance (probably slim, but there is a chance) that if the system is quite old, the heat could be steam heat fueled by oil. What is not clear is who is responsible for paying for the heat. Is it a tenant cost (part of an electric bill or what have you) or is it included in the rent. Completely agree with you, as I said up-thread, that the landlord might have acted quickly and in good faith, but did not address reparations while the heat was out, if the conditions were unacceptable. As you point out, apparently it was habitable.
Some answers to questions:
Don’t know many details re: heating system. Very old, hot water system with the old-timey radiators so I assume heating oil. Maintenance guy came. Took a look at it. Said it needed to be repaired and parts ordered. Dragged on for 2 weeks after that with next to zero communication unless one of the tenants called.
Heat is included in the rent so that would be some savings to the landlord over that 2 week period.
As far as habitability, the tenants dealt with it by spending little time there. One slept at significant others house. The other two slept together many nights (not a couple!) just to keep warm enough to sleep. If it was me, with my middle aged sensibilities, I would not have considered the conditions manageable. These people were “toughing it out” more than anything, making the best of a bad situation. I would not have done that and my guess is most people our own age would not have either given winter temps in the Northeast. I guess it depends on one’s definition of manageable. Maybe its #firstworldproblems but the tenants are living in the first world and paying first world rent.
At this point, I guess they can ask for compensation and try to negotiate. Just trying to guide them in the process. $Zero compensation doesn’t seem fair. $ to offset electrical and space heater cost seems like a minimum. Partial offset of rent seems fair from my perspective but we’ll see if its attainable. Being a larger management company with layers of staff makes it more challenging I think. Easier to hide behind bureaucratic layers it seems.
Fortunately, it has been a milder than normal winter so, although it was still very chilly compared to central heat, it was manageable.
My word choice was to express how terribly cold it was and that it was a burden upon the renters.
So was it manageable or was it terribly cold and a burden?
If the landlord acted in good faith in trying to schedule the repair, then the compensation should be covering the interim cost of heat - ie; the space heater cost. Seems like the tenants had these already, if they did not, the landlord should provide. But since they were there already, it would be reasonable to cover the electricity bill. If the landlord acted with malice, then that’s another story.
Outdoor temps ranged between 25-50 during that time period. Could have been worse because it isn’t unusual to have single digit and teen temps in a winter in the Northeast so they were fortunate in that aspect. Indoors, the temp was cold but hard to pinpoint as the thermostat wasn’t really registering it because it didn’t get above the minimum line (50 degrees?)
At least one space heater was purchased. Not sure about the others.
Some seem to think there needs to be some sort of “malice”, some don’t. At this point, I guess it doesn’t matter. A request can be attempted. It doesn’t warrant incurring any legal costs given the amount of $ potentially involved.
I appreciate the range of opinions expressed. They’re all helpful in considering an ask from the landlord.
Maybe the landlord could have provided these lovelies http://www.footedpajamas.com/Adult-Fleece-Footed-Pjs-s/101.htm
My younger daughter had problems in her first apartment. She said that a roommate wanted to go to small claims court but that she (my daughter) thought this was not a good idea because future landlords might use this as a reason to not rent to them. It seemed like a valid concern.
I agree, @rosered55. Not worth the risk of becoming a nuisance tenant. I’ve also considered that one shouldn’t be such a pain whereby they try to jack around with you at the end of the lease re: damages and deposits.
That’s a good reason not to sue. But asking for something (electric bill/partial rent) won’t hurt.
Yes, definitely worth an attempt! Like many things in life, doesn’t hurt to ask.
It makes sense to ask for increase in electric bill they had to pay, the space heater they had to purchase, and rental for 1/2 a month that it was too cold to comfortably inhabit their rental space. I think that would be reasonable, especially if receipts are attached to the request.
D1 was without heat for 3 months. The landlord brought over super duper space heater for every room. He paid for additional electricity bill and is giving D1 1000. It was finally fixed 2 weeks ago. The apartment is in an old brownstone with old heater.
I was there a few times, the apartment didn’t feel cold.
Thanks for the info, @odlfort. That landlord sounds like he was very proactive which is to be commended.
DS#1, when he rented, had potential landlords check with his previous landlords to see if he was a good tenant. Definitely don’t want a bad mark on our record. That said, bad landlords should be held accountable.